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Yeah, I guess the 6 fourth quarter comebacks/game winning drives he led never really happened in 2007.
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LOL @ the defense carrying the team.. Eli did absolutely everything right during the playoffs that year too.
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Touche? What do you want to hear? The nigga still threw 20 interceptions. Yes, he was good in the playoffs. I will concede that. I will concede that he had moments. But he only threw four more touchdowns than interceptions.
He's better than a lot of guys, and I'm hard-pressed to say he's not top-ten, because of the lack of talent and skill across the board at the QB position, but I'll maintain it.
He was great in the 2007 Super Bowl, but he had the number seven defense - eleventh in passing, eighth in rushing. He 'lead' the league's number 21st passing attack, but the team was fourth in rushing. They weren't quite the 2000 Ravens, but I don't think he was much of a catalyst. I mean, they could've done worse as far as a quarterback, but they could've done better.
White guys I'd take before Eli:
Peyton
Tom Brady
Drew Brees
Aaron Rodgers
Phillip Rivers
Ben Roethlisberger
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
Possibly:
Matt Schaub
And here's some black ones:
Michael Vick
Vince Young
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Quarterbacks with more yards this season (1785):
Phillip Rivers (2344)
Kyle Orton (2140)
Drew Brees (2029)
Peyton (1916)
Rodgers (1841)
Quarterbacks with more TDs this season (14):
None (Brees is tied with 14; he has 10 picks)
-Peyton and Phillip have 13 (PM has 2 picks, Phyllis has 6)
-Ryan and Rodgers have 12 (Ryan has 5 picks, Rodgers has 9)
-Fitzpatrick, Orton, and Brady each have 11 touchdowns and 4 picks
-Romo has 11 and six; Flacco and Palmer have 10 touchdowns and six picks
Quarterbacks with less interceptions (11):
Literally everyone else
And, as I recall, it's not Eli knocking opposing quarterbacks out of games. He has the number-three ranked defense, seventh in passing, seventh in rushing... Those are gross totals. By YPG, NFL.com has them ranked second in total defense and passing defense. They're ranked third in pass defense.
They are eighteenth in passing TDs allowed, and thirteenth in rushing TDs allowed (at least that's still upper-half), which comes-out to twenty-eighth in the league, so ya, the scoring defense hasn't been exactly on point.
For per-game, though, they're tied for 24th with KC. Still not great, but better than twenty-eighth.
However, said defense has seven interceptions. They're tied with San Diego, Arizona, Detroit, and San Francisco. Tennessee has twelve. Atlanta and Philly have eleven. Carolina, Green Bay, and Tampa have ten. Chicago has nine. Washington, Cleveland, New England, Pittsburgh, and Cincinatti have eight.
They lead the league with twenty-five sacks, tied with Tennessee. They have the fourth-ranked running game. So who's winning the games?
Eli doesn't seem to be the key to their success, and he's turning the ball over. They could stand to do a lot worse, and all of the interceptions aren't his fault, but you can't lead the NFL in interceptions and claim to be top ten.
It's not like he's thrown 20 TDs to 11 interceptions - he's 14 to 11.
In his defense, he is thirteenth in the league in passer attempts per game, but almost no one close to him in interceptions is considered a top-tier QB.
Brees has 14 TDs and 11 interceptions. So ya, he's in the discussion for more overrated.
Favre has 7 TDs and 10 interceptions, but he's known for his inconsistency, and he's not even on Nuk's list.
Fuck going through the interception leaders list. Let's go through Nuk's list:
Peyton - 13 TD, 2 interceptions
Brady - 11 TD, 4 interceptions
Rivers - 13 TD, 6 interceptions
Rodgers - 12 TD, 9 interceptions
Bradford (rookie) - 9 TD, 8 interceptions
Roethlisberger (suspended for four games) - 5 TD, 1 interception
Ryan - 12 TD, 5 interceptions
Romo - 11 TD, 7 interceptions
Sanchez - 9 TD, 2 interceptions
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There are several non-marquee names, like Fitzpatrick and Schaub, that are actually doing better statistically, and don't have as impressive defense to get them into the win column. He does still have more TDs than interceptions, though, so I guess he'll have that (until he throws it away); but mediocre or wishy-washy games (like last night's) are going to kill him statistically.
You mention not having a losing season since he's been a starter. What about the defense? What about the running game? Eli Manning is not a top ten NFL quarterback right now. It's difficult to say he wasn't the last few years, but I'd say the team around him, particularly the defense, is better this year, and he's statistically worse.
It just seems like he's still trying to figure out the game, in his seventh year in the league. He seemed to be getting it the last two years - stats are a reflection of personal, individual performance, even if the team is mediocre... and in 2008 they were certainly better than mediocre - but this year he's thrown 14 TDs and 11 interceptions. He seems to be back to same old Eli. I hope he gets better, because he's going to keep his job in any case and I'd hate to see him looking shit-to-average for several more years.
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After reading Fox's previous posts, Eli Manning has dropped to #14.Comment
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Nuk i respect you bro but Bradford at number 5? That cheroke son of a bitch hasn't even finished a full seasonComment
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Some nice stuff Fox, but at least 3-4 of those picks came right off his receivers hands.
And nuk continues to be a troll by enticing people. He doesn't believe this bullshit about Bradford at top 5. He's just pulling our dicks.
Nobody is THAT stupid.
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Matt Ryan still too low.
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No doubt. Like I said, some of the interceptions weren't his fault. But he still leads the league.
I agree completely. He still hasn't thrown as many picks as Eli. ;) (Just ball-busting)And nuk continues to be a troll by enticing people. He doesn't believe this bullshit about Bradford at top 5. He's just pulling our dicks.
Nobody is THAT stupid.Comment
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You say he's "still trying to get it" in his 7th season? How so?
Right now, he's on pace for his best career year in completion %, 2nd highest career year in passing yards, his best year in passing TDs.....and obviously his highest career year in INTs.
In 2005 (his first full year as a starter), he had Tiki's last great year, sure. But he also throw the ball very well. He completed at least 54 passes to four different receivers. Three different receivers (Plax, Shockey, Toomer) had 7 TDs.
In 2006, they had one of the worst defenses in the league. In Barber's final year (1662 yards, 5 TD...Jacobs had 400+ yards, 9 TD), Eli threw 24 TDs and 18 picks. They lost the WC game to Philly by 3 points.
2007 was amazing. The year started awful with the defense giving up a combined 800+ total yards and allowing 80 points. Then everything changed and the Giants went 10-4 to finish the season. Eli led the Giants through three road playoff games. His playoff run that year included 6 TDs, 1 INT (happened in the Super Bowl), over 800 yards passing. He outplayed Romo in Big D. He didn't make a mistake in freezing Lambeau when Favre did. When he had to make plays to beat Brady and the undefeated best team ever, he did it to become Super Bowl MVP.
In 2008, they had the #1 rushing attack (2 1,000 yard rushers) but he also was the 4th best QB in INTs thrown.
Last year, their rushing attack was at the middle of the league in terms of production (17th in yards, 15 in TDs). Eli set career bests for yards passing and TDs thrown with jut 14 picks and had a 62% completion percentage. Unfortunately, the defense was putrid. The defense gave up 38 or more points FIVE TIMES in losses. The last three wins the Giants had, they scored 34 on the Falcons, 31 on the Cowboys and 45 on the Redskins. Eli had his bad moments, 3 picks against Arizona...the horrible thanksgiving game against Denver (the entire offense was shit).
Remember also, from the period Eli entered the league, he has led the Giants on more game winning drives/4th quarter comebacks (16) than Brady led the Patriots in (15).
If he's not a top 10 QB, the talent level must be beyond awesome.
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All these stats for a guy ranked 14th.. I'd hate to see what happens when/if Eli Manning ever breaks the top 10.Comment
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First thing is first -- your top 3 are spot on.
Brees and Rodgers are 4 and 5 respectively. And I agree, the talent drops off quite a bit thereComment
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It's not awesome, that's why I'm appalled at his performance. My beef with Eli is that - like you said - he did really well in 2008 and last year, and now he's back to barely throwing more TDs than interceptions. His percentage completion is nice, sure, but in the modern NFL, just last year, JASON CAMPBELL threw for 3600 yards last year with a 64% completion rate.
Efficiency is more important, in my mind, and 14-11 is not great efficiency.
He seems, in my mind, to be just getting it because of how mediocre he looks sometime. I want him to prove me wrong. I want him to have a stupendous year.
The tough part of the season isn't quite here yet, in my mind. He has two games against the Eagles that are possible losses, a game in Minnesota, a game at Lambeau the day after Christmas, two games against the 4-3 Skins, and a game against the Jags. Who knows where things will go? How he deals with the adversity that will inevitably come will determine in my mind if he really is all that great.
And I saw him almost give the game back to Dallas last night, after his defense kept them under 300 yards of total offense.
At this point in his career, to be a top-10 quarterback, he's got to be more consistent, game-to-game, season-to-season. That's why it seems to me that he's still figuring the game out.
I can't possibly even imagine why he's relapsed into throwing 11 interceptions... Look, I could be REALLY off-base. He's thrown fourteen touchdowns, and if he hadn't been so inconsistent against Dallas last night, he wouldn't be leading the NFL in interceptions. Dallas only got a good pass rush on a few plays. There's no reason he puts them back in position to turn it into a game after the game his defense was playing all night.
He should've been better, but that's not what happened. So we'll see how he does to finish-out the season before I make my final call on whether or not he's a top ten NFL QB.
But, right now, at 7:40 PM on October 26th of 2010, I think there are at least ten guys I'd rather have under center on any given Sunday.Comment
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So, Fox, you agree, that Eli Manning is not a top 10 quarterback, correct?Comment
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