Is Jonathan Vilma the NFL "escape goat"?

[FirstTimer]

Knubb has now ascended to one of the worst posters in VSN history with his showing in this thread.

[FirstTimer]

Last week, former U.S. attorney Mary Jo White, who was hired by the NFL to evaluate its bounty investigation, said there was evidence from "multiple independent sources" that shows players received payments for hits on targeted opponents.

The NFL has said its investigation included 18,000 documents comprising nearly 50,000 pages.

White said the NFL has shared ample evidence with suspended players and the NFLPA,

Yeah, I'm sure the NFL legal team would come out and just say that if it weren't true.

[Senser81]

Knubb has now ascended to one of the worst posters in VSN history with his showing in this thread.

The list of "worst posters in VSN history" is constantly expanding...like the universe.

[RosettaStoned]

Geez.. even I knew I was being a homer when I argued Hines Ward was as good as Chris Carter.

This shit is beyond retarded at this point.

[ralaw]

It's amazing how certain topics that are close to the heart can kill a posters' VSN Power Ranking.

[FirstTimer]

I like how Knubbs argument is basically that Goodell suspended the Saints coaching staff, front office, and players and fined them and penalized them with no actual proof.

It's pretty funny, when the Saints are accused of something there is no proof of, they are pretty quick to come out against it(wiretaps) but when the bounty program broke they sat back and took their medicine and did nothing but apologize.

Gee, I wonder why.

[KNUBB]

You think I care about some list you homos have? I wanna see the evidence. All there is to it. I'm the only person actually talking about the topic. The rest of you are just talking shit about me. Stay on topic. All anyone has done is regurgitate what they have read somewhere. Do some research. Watch a game. Do something and judge on your own instead of just accepting what is said as fact. So the point of so few personal fouls from people out to injure people isn't relevant? There is no basis on it? Talk to me instead of being dicks and all condescending to me. If you can't do that then how does that make me such a bad poster?

[ralaw]

I also find it funny how Saints supporters make it seem as if Goodell hasn't submitted his proof, so that obviously means he just picked random names out of a hat to punish. Goodell is a smart dude with even smarter lawyers....I suspect they knew what suspending these players and coaches was going to cause, which is more litigation to which I am sure they are prepared for.

[KNUBB]

I like how Knubbs argument is basically that Goodell suspended the Saints coaching staff, front office, and players and fined them and penalized them with no actual proof.

It's pretty funny, when the Saints are accused of something there is no proof of, they are pretty quick to come out against it(wiretaps) but when the bounty program broke they sat back and took their medicine and did nothing but apologize.

Gee, I wonder why.

You want more of the denials. Like these guys are just taking this?

Here you go.

"At no time did I ever tell Anthony Hargrove to lie or deny the existence (of the alleged bounty program)," Vitt said. "He can say whatever he wants to say. It just didn't happen."

"We had a pot for big plays, the same thing everyone else in the league has, now they call them pay-for-performance. But we never paid for dirty hits," Vitt said. "I'll say it again, the exact same thing I told the commissioner, our players never crossed the white lines with an intent to maim or injure. They never threatened the integrity of the game when they crossed the white lines."

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2012/05/new_orleans_saints_interim_coa_1.html

Quotes like this have been said since this has been news, just hasn't been reported by the media at large. You can find quotes like this from all of them even Gregg Williams.

[FirstTimer]

I wanna see the evidence.

The Saints admitted to.

You actually want to see and read through the 50,000 page document?

That's hilarious.

So now you've gone from implying that there is no evidence to that you actually want to see it. Odd, the Saints themselves apologizing for the act isn't enough to kind of tip/knubb you off there is something to these accusations...nope. You need the NFL to FedEx you the documents so you can read through them.

I'm the only person actually talking about the topic.

You're the only one talking poorly about the topic, I guess we can give you that.

The rest of you are just talking shit about me.

Absurdly incorrect.

All anyone has done is regurgitate what they have read somewhere. Do some research.

Hey genius. Looking something up and reading about it........ That's research.

If you can't do that then how does that make me such a bad poster?

Again with the "personal foul" BS. No one said the bounty program was for overtly illegal hits. You can go out and try to injure someone and still do it with a legal hit. Unload onto a guy more than you have to. Take a crack back shot at Kurt Warner when you can etc. As stupid as I think some NFL players are I would think the worst way to cover up a bounty program would be to go out and start diving at knees and going at people's heads on a regular and obvious basis.

I also find it funny how Saints supporters make it seem as if Goodell hasn't submitted his proof, so that obviously means he just picked random names out of a hat to punish. Goodell is a smart dude with even smarter lawyers....I suspect they knew what suspending these players and coaches was going to cause, which is more litigation to which I am sure they are prepared for.

No, ralaw. Goodell randomly chose guys to suspend with no proof thinking that there would be no challenges to these suspensions and everyone would just go away quietly and admit to things they didn't do. He even had enough foresight that he knew the Saints would apologize for having a bounty program they never had.

[KNUBB]

FUCK YEAH

Multiquoted!!

This is a true highlight right here.

[EmpireWF]

So either Vitt is a liar or Hargrove is a liar.

Considering we know the NFL told the Saints to stop their program years ago....the Saints lied and continued onward....forgive me if I cannot consider Saints coaches and management to be so trustworthy.

[ralaw]

I'm confused. Was the Gregg Williams speech before the 49ers playoff game not "proof" that the Saints were organizing something? It's also funny that the players arguing against the suspensions aren't arguing for their lack of invovlement, but instead a loophole that says Goodell didn't have jurisdiction.

[FirstTimer]

You want more of the denials. Like these guys are just taking this?

Here you go.

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2012/05/new_orleans_saints_interim_coa_1.html

Quotes like this have been said since this has been news, just hasn't been reported by the media at large. You can find quotes like this from all of them even Gregg Williams.

at this from Vitt.

So Vitt not only accuses Hargrove of lying but Hargrove was dumb enough to implicate the Saints in the bounty program by telling people he was told to play "dumb" about it.



This logic fails for so many reasons.

Even if we want to ignore there was a bounty program..which there was...let's take a look at this.

Assuming there was no bounty program:

Vitt wouldn't have to tell Hargrove to "play dumb" about anything...because he wouldn't have to play dumb. If there was no bounty program and the NFL came sniffing around Vitt and the Saints would have nothing to worry about, let alone something to warn the players to "play dumb" about. Vitt's response to the Hargrove accusation makes zero sense because if it was a "pay for play" issue then Vitt wouldn't have to warn Hargrove to play dumb about a bounty program(which "didn't exist").

The Saints were stupid and reckless and got caught.

On top of all this the NFL told the Saints to knock it the eff off years ago, the Saitns owner told them to knock it off(what was there to knock off if it didn't exist?)...did the Saints deny the bounty program then? No, they just chose to cover it up.

I like how we have months of evidence(backed up by by independent sources), admissions of the Saints top brass shit was going yet Vitt getting in an illogical war of words with Hargrove somehow sheds light on the fact that this bounty program never existed.



Come off of it man. You're making yourself look dumb here.

[KNUBB]

I'm confused. Was the Gregg Williams speech before the 49ers playoff game not "proof" that the Saints were organizing something?

Considering how the defense played I chalked it up as coach speak(maybe a little much for coach speak, but coach speak none the less). I'm sure I'm not the only one(Maybe on this site I am), but I am positive many took it as coach speak or locker room talk. So no it is not proof. Unless you mean to tell me that they hit Alex Smith on his chin and was totally going for Crabtree's ACL. If that is so then please provide me with some visual evidence of such because I watched the same game you did.