is Jonathan Martin a dumb ass or did someone do something to him worth talking about?

[ram29jackson]

well..now the league is giving plenty of lip service to the whole thing...and Miami loses to Tampa

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Let's keep this thread on topic and quit with the insults. Take that shit to the Locker Room.

Bill, the result of this thread going off topic could turn out to be one of the best and last great topics in VSN history. DO NOT CLOSE IT DOWN.

http://www.virtualsportsnetwork.com/forum/showthread.php?133180-2013-Paycheck-Muscle-challenge-Maynard-vs-Rosetta-who-ya-got

[f16harm]

The drainage begins.

Hopefully you are referring to the shithole known as the Miami Dolphins front office.

[Argath]

Hopefully you are referring to the shithole known as the Miami Dolphins front office.

[f16harm]

I know what Larry meant, I was joking (not really though).

[RosettaStoned]

MrBill killed this thread. Good job dope.

[Glenbino]

Met Gus Martin yesterday.. He is not very enthused about discussing his kid's situation.

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk

[MrBill]

Brett Favre to Matt Lauer: I'd be 'leery' of a son playing football

....Favre also gave his thoughts about the Miami Dolphins bullying scandal involving offensive linemen Richie Incognito and Jonathan Martin.

"My initial reaction was, 'You gotta be kidding me,''' Favre said. "Pro football - bullying? It's the toughest sport, most violent, not to mention you're men, some older than others. So it's not like a little 12-year-old on the playground. All I'm saying is my initial reaction was a grown man that's 320 pounds is getting bullied?"

[Cornelius]

Favre then sexted Jonathon Martin to make him feel better.

[Tailback U]

Long but a good overall look at this entire situation.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/dolphins/2013/11/14/jonathan-martin-richie-incognito-nfl-dolphins-investigation-ted-wells-roger-goodell/3550425/

NFL
Stakes high for Jonathan Martin, Richie Incognito, others in Dolphins bullying investigation

Tom Pelissero, USA TODAY Sports
23 hours ago
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Former NFL receiver Greg Camarillo was on the Miami Dolphins roster in March 2010 when they signed guard Richie Incognito, whose bad reputation dating to college preceded him.


But the actions that led to that reputation — fights, suspensions, an arrest for assault, head-butts, taunting fans, allegedly spitting on opponents, anger management treatment, dismissals from two colleges and his first NFL team — weren't necessarily a problem for Incognito's new teammates.


Robert Mayer, USA TODAY Sports
Miami Dolphins tackle Jonathan Martin will meet with an NFL investigator Friday to more
GRIEVANCE: Incognito files with NFLPA

BELL: Martin might spark cultural change

INCOGNITO: 'I've taken stuff too far' with Martin

"There's a thin line between having a guy that has a reputation for doing too much and then having a guy that has a reputation for being aggressive and wild on the field in a good way," Camarillo, a seven-year veteran who retired after last season, told USA TODAY Sports.

"You want those guys that are borderline crazy on the field. It's just hard to find that one where he doesn't also do it off the field. It takes a unique human being to go out there on the field for 3, 4 hours and basically beat up on somebody across from you and then just completely turn it off."

On Friday in New York, Ted Wells — the noted criminal attorney hired by the NFL to direct what it called an independent investigation into workplace conduct at Dolphins headquarters — is scheduled to conduct an interview that could alter that dynamic of NFL culture forever.

Wells will meet with Dolphins tackle Jonathan Martin, who has said nothing publicly since his Oct. 28 departure from the team after a cafeteria prank triggered the investigation, Incognito's suspension for detrimental conduct and a national discussion about workplace bullying.

THOUGHTS ON IRELAND: Dolphins players tread lightly on GM

ANGRY: Fans leave voicemails for Ireland

ROSS: Dolphins owner stands by Martin

Jobs and a lot of money are at stake for many involved, from Incognito and Martin to coach Joe Philbin and his assistants, general manager Jeff Ireland and other team staffers. Future litigation could be costly for owner Stephen Ross, who asked NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell for help.

And the NFL, under more scrutiny than ever over player safety issues and just one year removed from suspensions in the controversial New Orleans Saints bounty case, could make an example of Incognito just as it did Sean Payton, Gregg Williams and Jonathan Vilma.

A conflict between two players — seemingly unbeknownst to one of them — has morphed into a public trial of the macho mindset that facilitated it. The resolution may be more complicated than imposing a hard-line hazing ban, which could have unintended consequences.

"The NFL would be making a big mistake if they went from zero awareness to zero tolerance," said Dr. Gary Namie, a social psychologist and director of the Workplace Bullying Institute.

"You've got to bring the cultures along. They've built themselves up over time. You have to draw a line in the sand with a very high threshold at the abuse level — when the targeted person stops laughing with and becomes the person laughed at and has the stress from the humiliation."


Bill Feig, AP
In this Sept. 30, 2013 file photo, Miami Dolphins guard Richie Incognito (68), center more
Working the locker room

When did Martin stop laughing? Or was he ever laughing in the first place?

The 24-year-old Stanford product no doubt will face those questions from Wells, whose goals Friday likely will include gathering as much forensic evidence (texts, voicemails, etc.) as possible, drilling down facts and establishing a timeline for the alleged abuse.

"He'll say to Martin: 'What's the closest date you can think of when this started?'" said Adam W. Hansen, an attorney at the employment and consumer litigation firm Nichols Kaster.

TIMELINE: Events surrounding Dolphins' bullying case

"'Walk me through what he said. Walk me through what you said. Walk me through all the conversations so we can paint the total picture of what happened here.' (Wells will) take that evidence and try to evaluate it wholistically, rather than piece by piece. That's really the key."

There is no federal law barring workplace harassment, though a voicemail Incognito left Martin — in which Incognito used a racial epithet toward Martin, who is black, and said "I'll kill you" — could form the basis for an eventual lawsuit for illegal discrimination, Hansen said.

An NFL locker room is a unique workplace in part because it's subject to the collective-bargaining agreement, which has its own set of rules. But federal laws still apply.

Martin's lawyer, David Cornwell, issued a statement last week saying his client "endured harassment that went far beyond the traditional locker room hazing" and included an alleged quote from one of Martin's teammates describing a sex act with his sister.

SURVEY: NFL players split on Martin-Incognito

In an interview with Fox Sports that aired Sunday, Incognito presented part of his defense: that he has text messages from Martin that include similar remarks, which Incognito has painted as frat-house humor the two used commonly to communicate.

"My actions were coming from a place of love," Incognito said in the interview. "No matter how bad and how vulgar it sounds, that's how we communicate, that's how our friendship was, and those are the facts and that's what I'm accountable for."

The Dolphins organization could be held accountable not only for what it knew about illegal discrimination, but what it should have known, according to Silvana Raso, a managing partner at the firm Schepisi & McLaughlin, which handles school and workplace bullying cases.

Philbin has said publicly the team was unaware of the alleged abuse until Nov. 3, when Martin's representatives turned over evidence that led to Incognito's suspension that night.

"The question becomes, was the culture such that this was expected and normal and everybody knew that this was going on, even if they didn't know the specifics of who was engaging in it?" Raso said. "If this was an atmosphere that was tolerated in the past, then they'd still be liable, even if it wasn't reported."

Code of silence

Maybe some players suspected Incognito was crossing the line. But it's no surprise no one turned him in, given locker-room code and how common hazing has been in the league for years.

"You'd get berated. You'd get teased," former NFL safety Darren Sharper said. "I've had my clothes thrown in the cold tub and the sauna and ruined. I've been on a plane and refused to get the veterans food before an away trip, and that was the longest plane ride of my life."

Some coaches who frown upon shaving rookies' heads or taping them to goalposts remain OK with them carrying veterans' pads or performing in a rookie talent show, like the one the HBO series Hard Knocks showed the Dolphins putting on during training camp in 2012.

BELL: Incognito's use of racial slur indefensible

The idea is to bring players closer together, though it's not far-fetched some players might feel the opposite effect. Seahawks coach Pete Carroll said he instituted a zero-tolerance policy because he "always felt like there was something demeaning in there that was a distraction."

Legendary coach Bill Walsh had a similar policy with the San Francisco 49ers in the 1980s, said hall of fame receiver Jerry Rice, who acknowledged a harsh reality: no matter what comes of the investigation, Martin almost surely can't return to the locker room.

"I think he's going to play football again, but it's probably not going to be with the Miami Dolphins," Rice told USA TODAY Sports. "And hopefully, Richie Incognito also realizes that you just can't treat people that way. Some of the things that he said, even in that voice mail — there was a lot of anger in that and a lot of people, a lot of teams, will hold that against him."

Yet Dolphins players have come to Incognito's defense far more than Martin's, despite the media firestorm and reminders from the team about its policies on harassment.

"We talk about it, but we're all grown men," linebacker Dannell Ellerbe said. "We all know what to expect around these times. You've just got to be respectful to each other. It's an NFL locker room. We laugh and joke all the time. I guess you've just got to watch what you say now."

VIDEO: Top 5 storylines for Week 11


In light of the Dolphins situation, the NBA sent a memo to teams last week about its existing policy banning all forms of hazing and bullying. On Thursday, Commissioner Bud Selig said hazing is not an issue in Major League Baseball and he's proud of players for being respectful — but didn't address the annual tradition of dressing up rookies in costumes for a road trip.

Other leagues figure to follow suit. College programs have had to address hazing among athletes and alleged abuse by coaches. Namie made a presentation on bullying at West Point the day the U.S. military rolled out its anti-hazing commitment, which he said focuses on "destructive hazing. People get killed in hazing. But you're not going to get killed having your head shaved."

Still, the line on abuse is crossed when a victim's health is affected, Namie said — and the mental can become physical, progressing from debilitating anxiety to depression to traumatization if the exposure is prolonged over a long enough period.

Martin, who is under contract through 2015, has continued to get paid weekly salary of $35,733 while undergoing treatment in California. Incognito, whose contract expires in March, could miss four games and lose five game checks totaling $1,176,470 before the team must reinstate or cut him, per the CBA. He filed a grievance Thursday and requested an expedited hearing.

Busting bullying

In 1998, defensive tackle Jeff Danish sued the Saints for $650,000 after he put his hand through a dorm window during a hazing ritual and needed 14 stitches. Teammate Cam Cleeland suffered blurred vision when teammate Andre Royal hit him in the eye with a sock full of coins.

Danish agreed to a settlement with the Saints. He also sued Royal, who was traded to the Indianapolis Colts days after the incident. Goodell's predecessor, Paul Tagliabue, didn't take disciplinary action but said NFL teams should place "greater emphasis on programs and policies to avoid incidents of this nature, which are disruptive, potentially dangerous and unacceptable."

Fifteen years later, the Martin case could be to hazing what the Saints scandal was to bounties, even though Vilma led a semi-successful legal fight that ended with Tagliabue overturning Goodell's suspensions of him and three other players. (Vilma also sued Goodell for defamation, but that lawsuit was dismissed in January.)

Wells' "independent" investigation was met by skepticism from the NFL Players Association, whose assistant director of external affairs, George Atallah, told USA TODAY Sports "it is difficult to call an investigator 'independent' if he is hired by one of the involved parties."

But Wells has experience navigating sports issues fraught with conflicts of interest. In January, his 469-page report on leadership and business practices of the National Basketball Players Association led to executive director Billy Hunter's ouster while also pointing out mistakes made by union president Derek Fisher, who pushed for the investigation.

"What's so extraordinary about this situation is that Martin, without apparently talking about his concerns with team leadership, just up and left," said Gary Roberts, a sports law expert and professor at Indiana University.

"Most of the time, these kinds of intra-team problems are dealt with internally and we never hear about them, because those players aren't going to want to give up their jobs or lose the income simply because they're not getting along."

At minimum, the Dolphins investigation figures to lend some teeth to team and league policies on workplace harassment — a critical element, according to Martin's mother, attorney Jane Howard-Martin, who wrote in an op-ed for USA TODAY in 2002 that a "policy against harassment is not valuable unless employees believe it will be enforced."

Such a promise could be enough to placate a workplace bullying victim, according to John Schepisi, a managing partner at Schepisi & McLaughlin. In Martin's case, he'd look like a hero to all rookies "and maybe it goes away without anyone having to pay anyone," Schepisi said.

Friday's meeting is just one important step in an investigation that could take weeks. Wells figures to interview Philbin, Ireland and other staffers who could be asked to turn over more forensic evidence, depending on the authority afforded by the league. Ross, whose Wednesday meeting with Martin was scrapped at the league's request, could be questioned, too.

"These are the folks that have the authority to hire and fire within the bounds of the collective-bargaining agreement," Hansen said. "What they knew and when they knew it is going to determine the extent of corporate liability."

Effecting change

That, above all else, figures to motivate whatever changes the Dolphins or the NFL make to ensure they don't end up in this position again. Ross said Monday he already is in the process of setting up a task force to improve the culture in the locker room.

Namie, a longtime Seahawks fan, knows it sounds strange coming from him, but he cautions against tinkering too much with mostly harmless rituals that actually can build team unity.

"All that's going to do is foster all kinds of resentment," Namie said. "Then coaches will be compliance officers, and it takes them away from what they should be doing. Let most of the other stuff go so that, over time, the culture changes."

The Dolphins also have a season to worry about. They've lost five of six entering Sunday's home game against the San Diego Chargers and spent another week answering questions that Camarillo said can stick with players longer than anyone wants to admit.

"We poke fun at each other. We make fun of people," said Camarillo, who is now in graduate school for educational leadership. "It's kind of understood that you don't talk about people's wives, you don't talk about people's sisters or family members.

"Obviously, you can't take it to the point where someone's going to want to quit their job or want to fight you. There's an unspoken line that can't be crossed."

[BigBucs]

Incognito attorney reveals texts




Richie Incognito and Jonathan Martin talked as though they were friends in text messages released by Incognito's attorney.

The attorney for Miami Dolphins offensive lineman Richie Incognito has released text messages exchanged between his client and Jonathan Martin that show the players insulting each other and talking as though they were friends.

Mark Schamel provided CBS4 News in Miami 40 pages of texts between Incognito and Martin, which date to December 2012.

Revelation of the texts comes one day after Schamel said Martin's comments and texts to Incognito were just as vulgar as the ones Incognito sent to Martin.

Schamel's recent actions come with the league expected to release its report on the Dolphins bullying case at some point after the Super Bowl. The NFLPA, also nearing the end of its own probe, said Thursday that Martin refused to speak with attorney Richard Smith, who the union retained in November to interview witnesses and examine team management's role in Martin leaving the Dolphins.

[+] EnlargeRichie Incognito
AP Photo/Wilfredo LeeRichie Incognito and Jonathan Martin talked as though they were friends in text messages released by Incognito's attorney.

One of the graphic exchanges was dated Dec. 17, 2012. At one point during the conversation, Martin told Incognito, "Ima egg your house & light a bag of s--- on fire then ring your doorbell."

The teammates continued their banter, with Incognito responding, "I'm going to shoot you and claim self defense. I'm white ur black I'll walk."

Martin answered, saying, "I'm gonna give McDonald bath salts and lock him in your house with a tranquilizer gun & a box of sand paper condoms." Incognito replied to Martin, "Hahaha."

According to the report, Incognito and Martin returned to texting the next day as if nothing happened. Other texts released by Schamel to CBS4 showed similar exchanges between Incognito and Martin over the next several months, some that contained "threats" and talk about women, among other things.

Another exchange between the two came Oct. 23, when Incognito texted "F--- you!!!" to Martin, who responded with a photo that read, "I will murder your whole f---ing family."

After Martin left the Dolphins in October, there were other exchanges including when Incognito repeatedly asked Martin to call him and asked him if he was OK. Martin responded Nov. 1, saying, "Wassup man? The world's gone crazy lol I'm good tho congrats on the win."

Incognito replied, "Thanks dude. It's unbelievable all the attention this is getting. All that's important is that you feel better and know we miss u dude."

Martin then said in a text on the same day, "Yeah I'm good man. It's insane bro but just know I don't blame you guys at all its just the culture around football and the locker room got to me a little … Btw … never check yourself into a mental hospital."

Also on Nov. 2, Incognito called Martin "buddy," then pleaded for his help because he was getting "killed" in the media over the emerging scandal. However, Schamel said Martin never responded.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10382065/richie-incognito-attorney-releases-texts-involving-jonathan-martin

--------------------

This shit is a damn shame. Guys rep and career ruined over some bullshit.

[ram29jackson]

This shit is a damn shame. Guys rep and career ruined over some bullshit.

which guy do you mean ?

[BigBucs]

Incognito.

[Maynard]

i think martins career is over. icognito has full support of the players. martin is thought of as a douche

[BigBucs]

I dont see how anyone would support Martin after those text have been revealed. Puts shit into perspective.