25 Greatest of All Time

[Senser81]

Good list. I would have found a spot for Johnny Bench, because IMO he was the best catcher of all-time. Bench was the best player on the Big Red Machine...Morgan was the 2nd best, yet both are ranked well below Pete Rose. Not saying thats wrong, just saying I wouldn't have ranked Rose so high.

Lefty Grove was probably the best pitcher of all-time. He needs to be included, too.

 

[spidey12293]

stopped reading after "Deciding who made the Top 25 was easy"

 

[DJ Fog]

Mariano Rivera maybe? Best closer ever.

 

[Leftwich]

No Cal Ripken, I guess talent alone gets you on this list.

 

[Anthony]

Eddie Murray is one of the greatest switch hitters of all time, arguably Top 3

Tony Gwynn retired with a .338 BA, 3141 Hits, 15x All-Star, 4 GG & a 7x SS!!!

and Junior, where the fuck is Ken Griffey Jr?

another honorable mention is Rod Carew.

 

[Senser81]

This is the problem with making lists of the best players of all time in baseball. Yes the stats are there for Ruth, Cobb etc, but a bunch of these guys played in completely different eras. Some of these guys went there whole careers never seeing a slider, split finger, a pitch thrown harder than 85 mph or even a black guy on the field. Yes you can argue over what some of these older players would have done given the nutritional and technological advancements of today, but that is still a ton of guess work that leaves a lot of holes and "what if's" hanging.

I thought that was kinda the point of an all-time list...including guys who played from different eras.

 

[T.Dot]

I stopped reading when i saw Rickey Henderson on the list

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I stopped reading when i saw Rickey Henderson on the list

Dumb.

If I had the time, I could make a pretty convicning argument he should be even higher. But 15 is probably the right neighborhood.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

- Cobb was a tremendous five-tool player (don’t let his low HR totals confuse you – he once hit 6 HRs in 9 at-bats to prove he could and being a leadoff hitter, he wasn’t supposed to hit HRs).

The leadoff hitter's job is to, 1.) get on base, and 2.) score runs. Hitting a HR accomplishes both, in one tidy swing.

I know i'm being nit-picky, but that bugs me when people say that.

Overall, this was a great write up. I don't agree with the entire list, but unlike most attempts at something like this, nothing offends me (with the possible exception of ommitting Bonds, but he's unique for reasons we wont get into for the sake of derailing the thread).

Refreshing read, especially considering i've been reading lots of steeljoke write ups lately.

 

[nflman2033]

I liked the list, like Senser said I would like to see Bench on there

 

[JeremyHight]

Not having Bonds is... questionable at best.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

But when you order the list as "the top-25 greatest of all time", you are invariably going to value one era of baseball over another.

I don't think the OP did that at all.

I mean, I think he's reaching with a few guys (Schmidt & Brett, for example...especially Schmidt IMO), but he's got a bunch of era's represented, a good mix of pitcher/hitter, etc.

He left out steroid era players like Bonds & ARod, but I don't have a major issue with that. It's fair.

 

[PNovak]

Ken Griffey Jr has to be on this list. If he isn't you must be on crack.

Check that, even a crackhead would know Griffey belongs on this list.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Ken Griffey Jr has to be on this list. If he isn't you must be on crack.

Check that, even a crackhead would know Griffey belongs on this list.

I don't think Griffey is one of the best 25 players in MLB history, and no sir, I have never done crack.

From 1999-present, he's been painfully mediocre.

He's a great player, and a HOF'er obviously, but not one of the 25 best players ever.

 

[Senser81]

But when you order the list as "the top-25 greatest of all time", you are invariably going to value one era of baseball over another.

Really? Why? Which era was overvalued in this list?

 

[Senser81]

I mean, I think he's reaching with a few guys (Schmidt & Brett, for example...especially Schmidt IMO), but he's got a bunch of era's represented, a good mix of pitcher/hitter, etc.

I was a big fan of George Brett, but he wasn't that good of a fielder and he had injury problems. I would probably leave him out of the top 25 even though he was great.

Schmidt on the other hand was IMO the best 3rd baseman of all-time. He was a great fielder and a great hitter who hit with power. He led the entire MLB in HRs 6 different times, and led the NL in HRs 8 different times...I don't know how many players can make that claim, much less Gold-Glove winning 3rd basemen.

I don't know how a person could say Schmidt was especially a reach. Which 3rd basemen would you rank above him?

 

[PNovak]

if the list was based on What-If's? I could see your point.

What if's? Even with his injuries he is one of the greatest ballplayers to ever play the game. 600+ HR's, Gold Gloves out the ass, MVP, silver sluggers. Decent AVG.

No wonder he made the all century team when he was still in his 20's.

 

[PNovak]

I don't think Griffey is one of the best 25 players in MLB history, and no sir, I have never done crack.

From 1999-present, he's been painfully mediocre.

He's a great player, and a HOF'er obviously, but not one of the 25 best players ever.

From 1999 til now he has 250+ HR's and has missed three seasons worth of games in that span. He would be top 3 in HR by now.

And I know, you cant use the what if card. IMO, he is still top 25 without a doubt.

 

[dell71]

Nice writeup. However, I will say starting with "Deciding who should be in the top 25 was easy" is one of the more ridiculous statements you could've made. There's at least 25 more guys who deserve some sort of consideration.

That said, it wasn't too bad. The only guys I would've definitely left off are Yaz & Rose. And I could quibble about the order (I would've went with Gehrig over Williams & bumped Aaron up a few notches) but that's basically minor.

The huge omissions for me is Bonds. Before the steroid era of his career allegedly began, he was already the only player in baseball history with at least 400 homers and 400 steals and already had a ton of gold gloves.

BTW, you undersold Ty Cobbs in the power department. To make people understand you should've pointed out that he played during the dead ball era when hitting 5 HRs was a big deal. He finished in the top 3 7 times.

Others to consider (some have already been mentioned):

Lefty Grove
Eddie Murray
Cal Ripken Jr.
Mariano Rivera
Bob Gibson
Nolan Ryan
Steve Carlton
Randy Johnson

Pedro Martinez...yes, I know what you're thinking. Many historians rank him as one of the best pitchers ever. If you're not convinced, think about this: he ranks 13th or better all time in WHIP, Winning%, Hits Allowed/9 IP, BB/9 IP, SO/9 IP, Strikeouts, SO/BB and Adjusted ERA+. He's also played through the steroid era, has a career ERA of 2.91 and has never lost more than 10 games in any season. Had he not had arm troubles he'd very likely be really close to 300 wins by now.

Roger Clemens??? I could see leaving him off because of the cloud hanging over many of his accomplishments. He's different from Bonds in that he was borderline at best for the HOF before he allegedly began using roids. Yes, he had 3 Cy Youngs & an MVP but was mediocre by the time he turned 30 & spent his last 4 years in Boston as an average pitcher. He left there at age 33 with less than 200 wins & roughly 2600 strikeouts. He was well liked at the time & had he quit he'd likely be in but the case could be made that he shouldn't. Tacking on his numbers from the time he went to Toronto & you nearly double his win total, add about 2000 strikeouts and an astounding 4 more Cy Youngs.

and my trifecta of catchers: Bench, Yogi Berra & Mike Piazza. Piazza isn't the defensive player the others are but he's more than arguably the best offensive player ever at the position.

 

[nflman2033]

Not having Bonds is... questionable at best.

lol, not having that joke is probably the best part about the list