Anyone losing faith in Theo Epstein and the Cubs?

[Senser81]

I'm starting to think there isn't going to be a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow for the Cubs. Kind of like how the Bulls and Jerry Krause were in the perpetual "rebuilding" mode post MJ. Thoughts:


*I didn't buy into the Epstein model from the start...when its so easy just to sign good players in the MLB, why would a top-money team like the Cubs undergo a total transformation? Use the farm system as a means to develop trade bait, sign established veterans, win games. Even Hendry could follow that plan. The big issue facing Epstein was clearing the bad long-term contracts that Hendry signed, not the establishment of a better farm system, IMO.

*Here is my quick thought on the Moneyball system...get some decent players who aren't great athletes but who can hit...give them PEDs so they can perform at a superstar level...win games. Happened in Oakland. Happened in Boston with Epstein. I guess I don't think the approach is entirely revolutionary if its somewhat dependent on PEDs.

*Don't know if its Epstein, but there is a lot of "misdirection" with the Cubs now. So much being made about revenue sources, events being held at Wrigley, etc. Instead of talking about the shoddy on-field product, we are bombarded with stories about the financial situation. The strange thing is that some in the sports media are actually buying into this...idiotic sports radio hosts are saying that this is "great progress" and that he's impressed with Cubs organization for hosting college baseball games at Wrigley and the like. Huh? What does that have to do with baseball? If anything, it should be a warning sign that the Ricketts are either a) too poor to actually be running an MLB team, or b) are mostly interested in the profit margin.

*Too many odd or, more often, insignificant roster moves being explained in a 3-year timeline...as in "we didn't see him contributing to the team 3 years from now, when we will be contending". I find this type of thinking to be self-defeating. People think Epstein was a big departure from the "loser" Cubs atmospheres of the past, yet he's created a situation where losing is most acceptable.

*Pitching addition through subtraction...Cubs starting rotation was terrible last year. Will it be any better this year? Doubtful. Too much is expected from Jeff Samardzija.

*Team still has way too many holes. The few good young players appear to be above-average, but not elite. I don't see anyone this team can build around. Starlin Castro is nice to have at SS, but is he really a great player? Not really. Can Samardzija be a good #1 starter? No. Is Anthony Rizzo an elite player? Jury is still out, IMO.

 

[Hasselbeck]

Who had faith in the Cubs to begin with?

 

[FedEx227]

The entire point of it was clearing all the bad contracts, create a more profitable team and build up a farm system to give you cost-effective talent down the road. I think they are doing a great job if that was the plan.

 

[Jayrock]

LOL at this shit. Did you see the situation the Cubs were in when Hendry was fired? Hoyer/Epstein have us light years ahead. Our farm system, recently thought of as the worst in baseball, is now top 5 or 10...maybe not all top level prospects, but very deep. Meanwhile, the Cubs have put together a decent product for this season, probably winning 75ish games... fangraphs has us at 78, that's pretty reasonable. There's a small chance at getting to .500 or even being a surprise team with a lot of guys on the last year of their deals playing for a new contract.

The real problem here is Ricketts. Pumping in project worth a couple hundred million bucks to renovate Wrigley is going to force the payroll down over the next few seasons... there's simply no way to pay for these renovations without reducing payroll because Chicago won't likely help that much.

The Cubs have a real future ahead... there's improvement in the bullpen, we have Baez and Soler waiting to take over two spots, Castro/Barney/Rizzo already holding down spots in the infield longterm...outside of a real huge need of top end starters (right now the plan is Samardizja *mj.gif*), there is actually a light at the end of the tunnel for Cubs fans.

 

[Jayrock]

That said, 2013 is our year and we're winning it all.

This year is here.

 

[JimLeavy59]

I find it odd that a baseball team in Milwaukee is more relevant than the Cubs.

 

[Primetime]

I find it odd that a baseball team in Milwaukee is more relevant than the Cubs.

Do you find it odd that Green Bay has a more relevant team than 90% of the NFL also?

 

[FedEx227]

That said, 2013 is our year and we're winning it all.

This year is here.

Exhibit A: Why Most Other Fanbases Can't Stand The Cubs

 

[JimLeavy59]

Do you find it odd that Green Bay has a more relevant team than 90% of the NFL also?

Thats a big different though, the Packers have history and great management. The Brewers have....?

 

[ryne candy]

Going to miss them coming to Houston (get to see them this preseason in Houston). The wife wants me to root for the Stros now that they are in the AL.

 

[Yawkey Way]

Epstein gets a lot of credit in Boston for taking over and winning almost immediately, but the moves he made were not so much retooling the farm system as they were making great 2nd-tier free agent signings. Most of the players he used to trade for Curt Schilling/Josh Beckett/Mike Lowell were drafted by Dan Duquette, not Epstein. Theo then signed players like Millar/Mueller and made the Nomar trade, so take it for what it's worth.

Obviously, Theo also drafted the likes of Pedroia, Ellsbury, Papelbon and surrounded the 2004 talent with youth, making the 2007 run possible. So I don't think you should be so quick to write Epstein off, it does take a few years. He did strike gold almost immediately in Boston, which certainly helped his cause.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I would have traded Castro, I think he's a flawed player with a bad attitude, but could have netted a real nice return. Then again, they may love Castro, and maybe I irrationally dislike the player.

Other than that, I think the Cubs are largely following the plan and doing a decent job.

 

[Goober]

I would have traded Castro, I think he's a flawed player with a bad attitude, but could have netted a real nice return. Then again, they may love Castro, and maybe I irrationally dislike the player.

Other than that, I think the Cubs are largely following the plan and doing a decent job.

It's interesting that all the projection systems are high on Castro this season, but him flopping in '13 is just as likely as him taking the next step forward in my opinion.

The Cubs farm system would be in really nice shape if they wouldn't have made that terrible Garza trade.

 

[Cornelius]

Exhibit A: Why Most Other Fanbases Can't Stand Chicago sports fans

FTFY

 

[FedEx227]

Are White Sox fans really that bad? We're like ungodly pessimistic dick-wads that put down our own team even if we're successful.

Totally got you on Bears, Bulls and Cubs though.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Are White Sox fans really that bad? We're like ungodly pessimistic dick-wads that put down our own team even if we're successful.

I know nothing about Cubs/White Sox culture, but in some ways what you are describing is worse.

I call this "The Obst Syndrome".

 

[NAHSTE]

I know nothing about Cubs/White Sox culture, but in some ways what you are describing is worse.

I call this "The Obst Syndrome".

:shotsfired:

 

[FedEx227]

I know nothing about Cubs/White Sox culture, but in some ways what you are describing is worse.

I call this "The Obst Syndrome".

Eh. It's annoying but trust me it's not as bad as the Cubs culture. Example: You just had fucking JayRock say "THIS IS THE YEAR"....

Postseason: Lost NL Division Series (3-0) to Los Angeles Dodgers

If anything it's the Mets/Yankees dynamic. One team will always be seen as the step-children regardless of what they do and their fans sort of take on that personality. Only difference is the Yankees are the most successful baseball franchise ever and the Cubs have an old ballpark.Giants/As is another good example.

 

[Hasselbeck]

3 sure things in life:

Death, taxes, the Cubs sucking

 

[Cornelius]

Are White Sox fans really that bad? We're like ungodly pessimistic dick-wads that put down our own team even if we're successful.

Totally got you on Bears, Bulls and Cubs though.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2005/news/story?id=2203060

AND

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/news/2002/09/19/royals_whitesox_ap/

You still want to ask?