Cavaliers' Ilgauskas surpasses 10,000 point mark

[LC AAU]

Cleveland Cavaliers center Zydrunas Ilgauskas has passed the 10,000 career point mark in Saturday's game against Atlanta.

Ilgauskas, who has battled numerous foot injuries in his 11 seasons in the NBA, passed the mark when he made two free throws with 7:21 left in the first quarter.

The 7-foot-3 Ilgauskas missed the entire 1996-97 and 1999-2000 seasons and played in only 24 games in 2000-01 because of injuries to his feet.

LeBron James, Brad Daugherty and Austin Carr are the only other players in franchise history to reach 10,000 points in their careers.

Good for him. He better get his jersey retired by the Cavs, he deserves it.

 

[Lupe]

Big Z has been there through the bad times and the good times with the cavs. Definitly deserves to have his jersey retired by the cavs when he retires.

 

[dell71]

Congrats on him getting to 10K points but can we all pump our brakes a bit, here? Retire his number? Really? I like Z but is he really an all-time great Cav?

The Cavs have 6 retired jerseys:

7 - Bingo Smith, F, 1970-79
22 - Larry Nance, F, 1988-94
25 - Mark Price, G, 1986-95
34 - Austin Carr, G, 1971-80
42 - Nate Thurmond, C, 1975-77
43 - Brad Daugherty, C, 1986-94

Is he really of that caliber? Well, I guess if Bingo Smith can have his number retired. Nevermind. Sort of.

 

[Esjay]

He better not get his jersey retired. That shit should be reserved for all time greats, Z isn't. Sorry.

 

[LC AAU]

Z has been with the Cavs his whole career, good and bad. Battled injuries to stay with them. I think it should be retired because of what he did, not his stats. Even though they aren't bad.

 

[dell71]

Z has been with the Cavs his whole career, good and bad. Battled injuries to stay with them. I think it should be retired because of what he did, not his stats. Even though they aren't bad.

What exactly has he done? He hasn't led them to anything. Being with a team for a long period of time shouldn't be enough to warrant retiring a jersey.

 

[Vinsane]

What exactly has he done? He hasn't led them to anything. Being with a team for a long period of time shouldn't be enough to warrant retiring a jersey.

So guys like Karl Malone, John Stockton, Charles Barkley, Patrick Ewing, and the list goes on don't deserve the same respect because the above mentioned never led there teams to anything.

 

[Onez]

^The Conference Title/NBA Finals are nothing?

 

[ralaw]

So guys like Karl Malone, John Stockton, Charles Barkley, Patrick Ewing, and the list goes on don't deserve the same respect because the above mentioned never led there teams to anything.

Are you really putting Big Z on a level of Malone, Stockton, Barkley and Ewing? Your argument reminds me of the one with NFL Qbs who never won a SB. In a discussion about all-time great NFL Qbs someone makes a comment about Marino not having a SB ring and says something like, "He doesn't have a SB ring, so that lowers him a bit" and than someone else comes in and ask, "So you think Dilfer is better than Marino?"

 

[FirstTimer]

So guys like Karl Malone, John Stockton, Charles Barkley, Patrick Ewing, and the list goes on don't deserve the same respect because the above mentioned never led there teams to anything.

Wow. Talk about an idiotic comparison.

Those guys above are some of the best players to EVER play their respective positions. Malone has 2 MVP's, Barkley has one. Stockton is one of the best PG's ever and Ewing was one of the best centers in the game for over a decade.

Those players, as the best players on their team led their teams to a combined 6 NBA Finals. 3 of them were shut down by none other than MJ and Ewing was shut down by Hakeem in the Finals and Jordan numerous times in the playoffs.

Big Z has been to a whopping 1 NBA Finals and that was as second or third fiddle to Bron.

Big Z has never been one of the top centers in the NBA(especially on the scale of Ewing) and has usually been the 2nd or 3rd best player on his team for a majority of his career. 3 of the 4 players you listed above were easily the best players on their team for a majority of their careers.

I kind of see the point you are scraping at trying to make but putting Big Z in the same breathe as those guys above is ridiculous.

 

[Vinsane]

^The Conference Title/NBA Finals are nothing?

Big Z went there too, with LeBron, but does Malone make it without Stockton? Does Jordan without Pippen?

Are you really putting Big Z on a level of Malone, Stockton, Barkley and Ewing? Your argument reminds me of the one with NFL Qbs who never won a SB. In a discussion about all-time great NFL Qbs someone makes a comment about Marino not having a SB ring and says something like, "He doesn't have a SB ring, so that lowers him a bit" and than someone else comes in and ask, "So you think Dilfer is better than Marino?"

Did I say that he was. No. I mentioned those names as they too led there teams to nothing more than a championship game but came home empty handed. And bringing a football argument into a basketball discussion to try to get a point in = fail.

Wow. Talk about an idiotic comparison.

Those guys above are some of the best players to EVER play their respective positions. Malone has 2 MVP's, Barkley has one. Stockton is one of the best PG's ever and Ewing was one of the best centers in the game for over a decade.

Those players, as the best players on their team led their teams to a combined 6 NBA Finals. 3 of them were shut down by none other than MJ and Ewing was shut down by Hakeem in the Finals and Jordan numerous times in the playoffs.

Big Z has been to a whopping 1 NBA Finals and that was as second or third fiddle to Bron.

Big Z has never been one of the top centers in the NBA(especially on the scale of Ewing) and has usually been the 2nd or 3rd best player on his team for a majority of his career. 3 of the 4 players you listed above were easily the best players on their team for a majority of their careers.

I kind of see the point you are scraping at trying to make but putting Big Z in the same breathe as those guys above is ridiculous.

I agree with you one hundred percent, some of the best players in the game. But proof that even the best players can be bested by a complete team. And a complete team needs complete teammates, such is Z. He does what's asked of him when he's not injured, has stuck around in Cleveland with some BAD teams when he could of exited Cleveland ala Carlos Boozer.

Being with a team for over a decade is unheard of if your not winning championships, if your in the bottom of the east for the first 2/3rds of a career no less. Z deserves the retired number because he's stuck it out with Cleveland, through thick and thin. He's a local hero, I'm not saying the NBA should retire his number, he doesn't deserve that, nor is he hall of fame material but to the Cleveland fans and community the guy is a cornerstone of this franchise and deserves no-less.

 

[ralaw]

Did I say that he was. No. I mentioned those names as they too led there teams to nothing more than a championship game but came home empty handed. And bringing a football argument into a basketball discussion to try to get a point in = fail.

What are you talking about? Did you just type that because you needed something to come back with? Your points directed at me make no sense.

 

[FirstTimer]

I agree with you one hundred percent, some of the best players in the game. But proof that even the best players can be bested by a complete team.

You're jumping around making different points now....

Big Z is not "one of the best players in the game" and thus shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breathe as the guys you mentioned when it comes to anything, much less the successes/failures of their particular teams in the playoffs.

Being with a team for over a decade is unheard of if your not winning championships, if your in the bottom of the east for the first 2/3rds of a career no less. Z deserves the retired number because he's stuck it out with Cleveland, through thick and thin. He's a local hero, I'm not saying the NBA should retire his number, he doesn't deserve that, nor is he hall of fame material but to the Cleveland fans and community the guy is a cornerstone of this franchise and deserves no-less.

I don't disagree maybe eh should have his jersey retired by the Cavs. Frankly, I don't care either way. I was just taking issue with the arguement you put forth. The argument above is a great one for why Z should have his # retired by Cleveland, but using Big Z in comparison with those other all-time greats as far as team success goes is off base IMO and doesn't make any logical sense.

 

[Onez]

Big Z went there too, with LeBron, but does Malone make it without Stockton? Does Jordan without Pippen?

Malone and Stockton were two of the best players in the league and Jordan is the mind of a lot of people the best player of all time. Ilgauskas was a role player. Basically everyone from the Cavs, besides LeBron and Daniel Gibson against the Pistons, was a role player. You can't compare Ilgauskas to some of the best players of all time, come on now!

 

[Vinsane]

What are you talking about? Did you just type that because you needed something to come back with? Your points directed at me make no sense.

It was a counter-point to the fact you said I put Big Z = Malone/Ewing/Stockton, which I didn't. Read before you respond.

You're jumping around making different points now....

Big Z is not "one of the best players in the game" and thus shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breathe as the guys you mentioned when it comes to anything, much less the successes/failures of their particular teams in the playoffs.


I don't disagree maybe eh should have his jersey retired by the Cavs. Frankly, I don't care either way. I was just taking issue with the arguement you put forth. The argument above is a great one for why Z should have his # retired by Cleveland, but using Big Z in comparison with those other all-time greats as far as team success goes is off base IMO and doesn't make any logical sense.

Again, the only reason I mentioned Z in the same breath was comparison to players "Who didn't win anything" a point made by another poster. Malone, Stockton, Ewing all walked away without rings. That was the only point I was trying to make.

Malone and Stockton were two of the best players in the league and Jordan is the mind of a lot of people the best player of all time. Ilgauskas was a role player. Basically everyone from the Cavs, besides LeBron and Daniel Gibson against the Pistons, was a role player. You can't compare Ilgauskas to some of the best players of all time, come on now!

Proof that some people just argue without reading. Show me where I put Big Z on the same plateau of some of the greats, what's that? You can't, oh, that's because I didn't say it. Again, for the third time in this post alone, one poster said Big Z did nothing for Cleveland, which is exactly what those guys (Stockton, Malone, Ewing, etc.) did for their teams. As players they're some of the greatest the game has ever seen, hands down. However, none of them brought home a Championship.

I even stated WHY Big Z deserved to have his number retired by Cleveland and it had nothing to do with "being one of the greatest centers in the game" because, he's nowhere near that list. Jesus people please read before you try to get at me :club:

 

[Lupe]

Does anyone think that Big Z deserves to have his number retired more then Chris Webber? Webber had his number retired by the Kings earlier in the season.

 

[LC AAU]

IMO he deserves his Number retired as much as Cwebb. And he's still going to play a few more seasons also.

 

[ralaw]

Vinsane,

The point you're missing is that Z's accomplishments shouldn't even be compared to the players you mentioned, because Big Z isn't the calibur of player those other guys you mentioned are. You're comparison would have made more sense had you compared Big Z's accomplishments to Jeff Hornececk, Dan Majerle, John Starks, etc as these are guys who are closer to the calibur of player as Big Z has been. Big Z is a role player with one or two all star game selections, while the guys you mentioned are all-time greats, which is why their jerseys are retired regardless of having won a championship.

 

[FirstTimer]

Does anyone think that Big Z deserves to have his number retired more then Chris Webber? Webber had his number retired by the Kings earlier in the season.

LOL at this.....

That's ridiculous too. Webber>>>>Big Z. CWebb was one of the best PF's in the NBA during his time and for a career put up numbers and career averages few others have. CWebb is a borderline HOF candidate, who was the key piece on a lot of contender. Big Z is a role player for a below average team most of his career and not the caliber player CWebb was.

20 ppg, 9 rpg, 4 apg has only been done by five other players in NBA History.

Elgin Baylor
Larry Bird
Billy Cunningham
Wilt Chamberlian
Kevin Garnett

Vinsane,

The point you're missing is that Z's accomplishments shouldn't even be compared to the players you mentioned, because Big Z isn't the calibur of player those other guys you mentioned are. You're comparison would have made more sense had you compared Big Z's accomplishments to Jeff Hornececk, Dan Majerle, John Starks, etc as these are guys who are closer to the calibur of player as Big Z has been. Big Z is a role player with one or two all star game selections, while the guys you mentioned are all-time greats, which is why their jerseys are retired regardless of having won a championship.

Exactly. There is a massive difference in being the best player(and all-time great) on a team that just comes up short and being a role player on an average team/team that comes up just short.

 

[Senser81]

Congrats on him getting to 10K points but can we all pump our brakes a bit, here? Retire his number? Really? I like Z but is he really an all-time great Cav?

The Cavs have 6 retired jerseys:

7 - Bingo Smith, F, 1970-79
22 - Larry Nance, F, 1988-94
25 - Mark Price, G, 1986-95
34 - Austin Carr, G, 1971-80
42 - Nate Thurmond, C, 1975-77
43 - Brad Daugherty, C, 1986-94

Is he really of that caliber? Well, I guess if Bingo Smith can have his number retired. Nevermind. Sort of.

Nate Thurmond played all of 3 seasons with Cleveland. Advantage Illgauskas.

Bingo Smith was a decent player at best. Advantage Illgauskas.

Larry Nance was a very underrated player, but his best years were with the Suns. He was in the twilight of his career with Cleveland. He was very good with the Cavs, but definitely not an all-star.

Austin Carr had a couple good years early in his career, but he was nothing special. Advantage Illgauskas.

Mark Price was another good Cavs player, but he wasn't necessarily head and shoulders above and Illgauskas.

Daugherty is probably the best 1-to-1 comparison to Illgauskas. Daugherty played 8 years, averaged 19pts 10rebs. A few all star games. Illgauskas played longer, but has lower averages (15pts 8 rebs). He has two all star games. Probably a little worse than Daugherty, but definitely comparable IMO.