Charles Oakley on the Knicks

[jeffx]

Thank you Oak, for preaching the truth! This current group of 'Knicks' will never win anything. We have a brain-dead owner, a fraud coach and soft players who wouldn't know defense if it bit them in the ass.

http://dimemag.com/2011/10/charles-oakley-tells-all/

 

[young2rice]

Neither did Oakley in New York

*troll face*

 

[EmpireWF]

Oakley saved by far his harshest assessment for Isiah Thomas, whose specter still hovers over the franchise long after he was supposedly deposed.

“I don’t even understand how he got a job with management,” said Oakley. “He had nothing to do with the Knicks. Then he talked bad about the Knicks. If I see him, he’d better turn around and walk the other way.”

:beersalute:

 

[FedEx227]

Definitely need advice on winning championships from some 1990s Knicks players.

 

[EmpireWF]

Definitely need advice on winning championships from some 1990s Knicks players.

Not about that. About being tough on the court.

 

[FirstTimer]

And that 1990's toughness on the court won Oakley and the Knicks how many rings?

 

[FedEx227]

What did being tough guys do for them?

If you want to say that their gimmicky offense, lack of focus on defense on purpose and say that doesn't lend itself to long term success then say that... Don't posture about how much tougher and rough you were when you didn't win shit.

 

[EmpireWF]

What did being tough guys do for them?

If you want to say that their gimmicky offense, lack of focus on defense on purpose and say that doesn't lend itself to long term success then say that... Don't posture about how much tougher and rough you were when you didn't win shit.

1990s Knicks made the playoffs ever year, the finals twice. Lost the conference finals twice. Won the first round series 9 times. They never won the ultimate goal but god damn did they make it more than a laugher.

Team hasn't won a playoff series in over a decade, haven't won a playoff GAME in over a decade. In the past ten seasons, they've only made it twice.

I'll take the 90s Knicks over that shit anytime.

Should've been able to beat Houston. For fuck sake, they lost by 2 points in game 6 before Starks horrendous performance in game 7. 2 for 18 from the field/ 0 for 11 from behind the fucking line. If even Ewing drops in a few more buckets (he was 7 for 17 and 3 of 6 from the free throw line).

 

[FirstTimer]

Team hasn't won a playoff series in over a decade, haven't won a playoff GAME in over a decade. In the past ten seasons, they've only made it twice.

Ok and that relates to toughness how? The Knicks have had incompetent boobs in the FO and terrible coaching during this time as well.

I'll take the 90s Knicks over that shit anytime.

Those teams were flat out more talented than pretty much every Knicks team this decade. Were they "tougher" sure? But guess what else? They were just flat out better at the game of basketball from the top of the roster down.

 

[EmpireWF]

Ok and that relates to toughness how? The Knicks have had incompetent boobs in the FO and terrible coaching during this time as well.

Those teams were flat out more talented than pretty much every Knicks team this decade. Were they "tougher" sure? But guess what else? They were just flat out better at the game of basketball from the top of the roster down.

Because they had shitty players from the Shandon Anderson's to the Howard Eisleys to Tim fuckyou Thomas and the rest.

I guess it's too much to ask a pro team to commit to defense like they do offense.

With D'Antoni as coach though, it's to be expected. Which is why the Knicks will not win anything in this system.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Knicks fans are whiners.

D'Antoni finally turned this shit franchise back around, got them to the playoffs, and has them on the right path. Knicks fans should be excited, not bitching about a lack of defense. When you have a coach like D'Antoni (who is an elite coach, btw, that would be unemployed for about 10 minutes if the Knicks canned him), there is no point complaining about defense because he does not win that way, and he isn't going to change - nor should he, because he's a proven winner.

It reminds me of Rams fans who used to bitch about Martz and his lack of a running attack, ignoring the fact that he had All Pro QB's and WR's and won 12 games every year while going to SB's. Why would you want someone who has success to change what works for him? I don't get it.

 

[FedEx227]

If you want to say that D'Antoni's system doesn't win championships, then okay... it probably doesn't.

Then again the awesome 90s Knicks who were rough and tough MEN... didn't win either. Empire defined success by playoffs and consistency in reaching the playoffs, D'Antoni does that... just in a different way than the 90s Knicks.

 

[EmpireWF]

At the same time fedex, put any professional level coach on a team with Amare and Melo...if they can't make the playoffs they suck. I'm willing to take it slow in terms of judging success....last year was an improvement. The next step is winning playoff games & a series at the least.

If they can accomplish that whenever the next season rolls around, I'll be happy.

Knicks fans are whiners.

D'Antoni finally turned this shit franchise back around, got them to the playoffs, and has them on the right path. Knicks fans should be excited, not bitching about a lack of defense. When you have a coach like D'Antoni (who is an elite coach, btw, that would be unemployed for about 10 minutes if the Knicks canned him), there is no point complaining about defense because he does not win that way, and he isn't going to change - nor should he, because he's a proven winner.

It reminds me of Rams fans who used to bitch about Martz and his lack of a running attack, ignoring the fact that he had All Pro QB's and WR's and won 12 games every year while going to SB's. Why would you want someone who has success to change what works for him? I don't get it.

Because D'Antoni's style has not been proven to win it all in the playoffs.

Besides, it'll take more than one season of 500 ball before I start :fap: about the coach.

Sign a superstar like Amare and you expect to improve, which they did. Acquire another superstar like Melo, the team did lose some flow in the second half but they managed a winning streak and finished a few games above 500.

Give them a training camp together with the rest of the roster and they should be able to win close to 50 games. Assuming Amare can stay healthy and Billups can, too.

There's obviously more to be excited about now than at any point in the past decade but...there's still plenty of stuff that can cloud that (Walsh stepping down, Isiah looming around, no defense D'Antoni, health, what happens with the cap, DOLAN, etc.).

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

So in summary...

-You have a potential 50-win roster
-There is more to be excited about than at any point in many years
-You won your first playoff game in a decade last year

...but you still don't like the coach?

Ok. I just don't get it.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Another thing I hate, is stuff like this:

"Because D'Antoni's style has not been proven to win it all in the playoffs."

This is more of a general sports rant, and i'm not trying to pick on Empire here, but this is bullshit. Just because it hasn't won in the playoffs, doesn't mean that it can't, or that it has been proven that it can't.

Sports is all about matchups. D'Antoni ran into some very, very good Spurs teams seemingly every season. Great teams, and a bad matchup for his Suns personal wise. Who knows what happens if they don't run into the Spurs every year.

It's like saying the Pacers or Knicks weren't good enough to win in the 90's. Bullshit. They weren't good enough to beat Jordan, and were incredibly unlucky to play in the same era as a freak of nature.

IDK, I just hate sweeping generalizations, especially when it comes to the "win the championship or you are useless and suck" attitude that sports fans have these days.

 

[EmpireWF]

So in summary...

-You have a potential 50-win roster
-There is more to be excited about than at any point in many years
-You won your first playoff game in a decade last year

...but you still don't like the coach?

Ok. I just don't get it.

They didn't win a playoff game last year.

The way I look at it, Melo + Amare = potential 50 wins. Whether it was Don Chaney on the bench or D'Antoni.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

They didn't win a playoff game last year.

The way I look at it, Melo + Amare = potential 50 wins. Whether it was Don Chaney on the bench or D'Antoni.

Ok, now this I can buy if you want the coach gone. I don't agree with it, and I think you're nuts, but that's different than asking the coach to change his stripes when what he has been doing his whole career is seemingly working.

 

[EmpireWF]

Another thing I hate, is stuff like this:

"Because D'Antoni's style has not been proven to win it all in the playoffs."

This is more of a general sports rant, and i'm not trying to pick on Empire here, but this is bullshit. Just because it hasn't won in the playoffs, doesn't mean that it can't, or that it has been proven that it can't.

Sports is all about matchups. D'Antoni ran into some very, very good Spurs teams seemingly every season. Great teams, and a bad matchup for his Suns personal wise. Who knows what happens if they don't run into the Spurs every year.

It's like saying the Pacers or Knicks weren't good enough to win in the 90's. Bullshit. They weren't good enough to beat Jordan, and were incredibly unlucky to play in the same era as a freak of nature.

IDK, I just hate sweeping generalizations, especially when it comes to the "win the championship or you are useless and suck" attitude that sports fans have these days.

I can understand hating such generalizations. It probably is ridiculous to say.

But, nearly every year in the finals I see great defensive efforts. The team that can be lax on that end of the floor almost aways stalls when all the marbles are on the line.

Can an offensive-minded team win it all, by purely outshooting? Sure, but it's not the norm. Could the Knicks develop the rest of their roster around the big 2? Perhaps.

The thing I'm most worried about is wasting Amare's prime and Melo's youth while the rest of the roster comes around. It's a lot hoping Landry Fields can continue to grow and Big Man A can be a legit contributor.

 

[jeffx]

Ok, now this I can buy if you want the coach gone. I don't agree with it, and I think you're nuts, but that's different than asking the coach to change his stripes when what he has been doing his whole career is seemingly working.

The coach can stay, but only if he makes a committment to defense, and holds players accountable. Look at Miami and Boston - their stars play 'D', our stars don't. Until that changes(and we get size up front), Knicks will NEVER get to the next level. Bulls fans should consider themselves lucky - you could have had No-D'Antoni if the front office didn't lowball him.

As for the '94 Knicks, Pat Riley fucked up in Game 7, which he admits now.

 

[ralaw]

I'm not a D'Antonio guy either........mostly because IMO with the way this team in constructed it simply isn't good enough. For D'Antonio's system to work you have to have a very talented team with a gifted PG. If they want any chance of competing with the Miami Heat in the East they have to get Chris Paul. Paul in that system would be NashMVP like. Neither Athony or Stoudemire are the type of players who you can expect to carry the load......Chris Paul is that type of guy and also is the type of guy who will hold others accoutable and get everyone where they need to be to be successful (this is what Nash did). Paul will also demand that they play some defense as well.