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Dell's Pointless Lists - Greatest Emcees

dell71

Enter Sandman
This was actually the topic of another thread. In that thread, I said I would put some thought into it and here it is:

The question of who is the greatest emcee of all time is eternally interesting. A case can be made for any number of artist. There is no clear cut answer. Your answer depends on what aspect of the art you value most and maybe even where you grew up. For me, I tried to incorporate three main things: Lyrical ability, success and impact on rap. That first one carries the most weight. If two guys are generally equal, I'll go with the one I think is the more skilled lyricist. However, that alone isn't enough. An artist needs to have left a lasting impression on the game and being a success in the sales department doesn't hurt. Since most of your faves that are out today are fairly new to the scene, don't expect to see them here. Then, keeping in mind the criteria I laid out remember that simply being “nice" on the mic isn't enough. Truth told, the bottom half of the list could probably beat the top half in a battle.

And yes, I totally copped out and went with a tie for 10th. I just couldn't bring myself to eliminate either. Anyhoo, let's get on with it:

Dell's Greatest Emcees of All Time

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10A. Kool G Rap
East Coast gangsta rap pretty much starts here. At a time when just bragging about how nice you were on the mic was all the rage, or telling funny stories, G Rap dropped The Road to the Riches. It's the vivid tale of a young hustler who really wants to be a rapper. Of course, others such as Streets of New York and Ill Street Blues would follow. Also, he and Big Daddy Kane ushered rap out of the formula of simple couplets with the occasional triplets and often accidental internal rhymes. Listening to him you got the feeling he was trying to say as many rhyming words as possible while still conveying a coherent thought. When G Rap strikes the mic I recite the type of hype that you like/ to make the people unite/ I rip up hits/ zip up lips, step on reps, you flip/ and wanna sip on my tip. Definitely, ahead of his time. His lack of commercial success has always been his fatal flaw, however. Truth told, though Nas has been compared to Rakim ever since anybody's ever heard of him, his style is far more reminiscent of Kool G Rap. In fact, when Nas was shopping for a deal none other than Russell Simmons refused to sign him because "he sounds like G Rap. G Rap don't sell no records.


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10. Eminem
Lyrically, he's as skilled as anyone in the game. For at least 3 albums, he simply tried out different cadences and rhyme schemes on nearly every track. His subject matter also sets him apart from his peers. Tales foreign to most hip hop heads were grounded by his linguistic wizardry. Whether you can see the artistic value of his tirades against his mom, wife, other celebs and stories of his adventures while high or not what can't be denied is the fact that he consistently bared his soul. Unlike most he never, or rarely, makes himself out to be some sort of invincible action-hero. Then of course, he's also been as commercially successful as anyone in the game. He also doesn't shy away from the fact that he's white having something to do with it. In his words "Let's do the math/if I was black I woulda sold half."


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9. Scarface
Scarface isn't into verbal gymnastics like most of my faves. In fact, his rhyme schemes are as simple as anyone who's ever touched the mic. He usually doesn't do anything other than straight-forward couplets. Listen to the way the previous guy experiments with the English language, bending it to create loads of internal and multi-syllabic rhymes. That's not Face's deal. He just gives you raw power through each bar he spits with that deep bass voice and Texas drawl. More than anything, this is the MC that everyone south of the Mason Dixon line aspires to be. Believe it or not, his mix of gangsterism with righteousness and religion has even inspired many outside his region.


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8. Big Daddy Kane
Kane was Biggie before Biggie. He had that raw Brooklyn swag, the ladies loved him and his skill couldn't be denied. Certainly, he's one of the most clever lyricists of all time making use of witty punchlines, double entendres, and complex rhyme schemes that included long strings of rhyming words. Add to that, he was one of the commercially successful rappers of his day. From there, he was one of the first rappers to really venture out into the mainstream through decidedly non-hip hop avenues (the appearance in Madonna's photo book Sex and a spread in Playgirl among other things). Back to that Biggie thing, Kane basically gave Bad Boy the style they would become famous for a decade later. Chances are, if your favorite rapper is from Brooklyn, this is one of their favorite rappers.


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7. The Notorious B.I.G.
Honestly, in my opinion Biggie has the best flow of all time. Period. He rode every beat perfectly. And he said the most outlandish things, things that made you hit rewind just to hear them again. That ability, combined with his smooth pimp/gangsta of love swagger helped make him a 300+ pound, pug-nosed and undeniably ugly sex symbol. However, to me his best quality was his story-telling. He did it better than anyone ever has, save for arguably Slick Rick. The word cinematic has often been used to describe his story-telling and its accurate. He doesn't just tell you 'this happened, then this, then that.' He gave us scenarios and let them play out. He even gave us character development...in a rap song! What drops him down to 7 for me is the unfortunate lack of longevity. Certainly, not his fault but I can't help but think there was something better coming as he started to dig more into his soul.


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6. KRS-One
A true hip hop legend. If you don't believe me, just ask him. Jokes aside, KRS is phenomenal. Along with Kool G Rap, he was also there at the start of East Coast gangsta rap. In fact, his debut Criminal Minded is probably the first such album. His tales were raw and uncut. And he waged war against my hometown, Queens. And won, just ask MC Shan. After DJ Scott La Rock's death, KRS switched gears. With the release of By Any Means Necessary (along with Public Enemy's It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back) he ushered in the 'conscious era' in rap, helping to bolster the feeling of black pride by hip hop youth. He also swears he invented the 16 bars per verse structure that has become prevalent in hip hop. I can neither confirm nor deny that claim but I do know this: he's still doing it after all these years having just recently released a collabo album with former Black Moon frontman Buckshot. The T'cha still teaches.



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5. Jay-Z
The Jigga man has done everything that can be asked of a hip hop artist. He went the hardcore role and released some of the most beloved albums of purists ever. He went the mainstream route and made some of the genre's most successful albums. He mixed the two, and earned critical acclaim. To accomplish this, he freely borrowed from Biggie and Kane. Though he's never acknowledged it, he's also utilized the Naughty By Nature street-ready but radio friendly formula to create a string of hit records. He's survived beef with nearly everyone. Still, its what he's done outside the booth that makes him, in my opinion, the most important rapper of all time. He went from a nickel & dime hustler to a multi-million dollar business mogul who hob knobs with A-listers. He's the first rapper to really show us that if he ever really does decide to retire, he'll be just fine. Hova went in the booth with, in his words, “the flow of all flows" and came out with the American Dream.


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4. LL Cool J
This is probably the most underrated emcee of all time. Whenever arguments break out over the GOAT, his name is often left out. The string of great songs is endless and plenty of great albums go with them. He took the braggadocio element of hip hop to new heights: If you think you can out rhyme me, yeah boy I'll bet/ cuz I ain't met a motherfucker who can do that yet! / Trend-setter, I'm better, my rhymes so good / I got a gold name plate that says "I Wish You Would!" Every solo rapper after him pretty much either emulated him in some form or purposely tried to do the opposite of him. He survived not one, but two of hip hop's greatest battles. First, after responding to Kool Moe Dee with Jack the Ripper, the old Treacherous Three vet was still around for a little bit, even came at Cool J a few more times but never really had anymore buzz to him. Pretty much the same would happen a decade later to Canibus. Not to mention run-ins with Ice T & Hammer. This next thing weighs even more heavily in his favor. He's the first, not one of the first, THE FIRST artist ever signed to Def Jam. Without him, Def Jam may never get off the ground. The significant part of that is he released an album as recently as 2008 and has moved on to a solid acting career. However, the thing that mostly keeps him off these types of lists is the very thing that should put him on them. When he released the single I Need Love he gave hip hop romance and real sex appeal. Hardcore heads complained but the ladies ate it up. That one song is the reason why most rap albums that have followed have songs on them engineered toward the fairer sex. And still, nobody gets the honies going like LL.


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3. Rakim
WHAT??? The God MC is not my #1? Settle down. He's still a great. He's credited with giving the game what's known as flow. I don't quite buy that because the fact is to make a rap song you have to have some kind of flow and ride the beat. He just did it better than most. That also meant he wasn't afraid to rhyme really slow over a slow beat like on Check Out My Melody or rapid fire like on Follow the Leader. Then the content he delivered was and still is unique. He laced his party songs with deep thoughts and his deep songs with party lines. Even some of the doctrine from the 5% nation of Islam crept in but rarely overwhelmed a song. Though not quite on Kane or G Rap's level as far as complexity of structure goes, he wasn't too shabby. Few others can claim to be on his level. And somehow, even when he said something simple in a simple manner, it felt complicated. You, the listener, felt proud to have “gotten it" so easily. He also gave hip hop that all-business persona since Ra has been rarely seen to smile, even in concert. But more than anything, he just delivered iconic line after iconic line after iconic line...you get the picture.


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2. Ice Cube
I know most of young folks only know him as the guy in all the corny family movies. Or from the Friday franchise. Believe it or not, this was once the most feared entertainer in Amerikkka. What gets him here is he is most responsible for the way rap sounded over the last two decades. Gangsta-rap damn near grew from his loins. His group NWA is among the most influential groups of all time, though maybe not the first gangsta-rappers they were right there and easily the most successful of their peers. By all accounts, who wrote the vast majority of their lyrics on their iconic debut Straight Outta Compton, plus the lyrics for Eazy-E's almost as iconic solo outing Eazy-Duz-It? Ice Cube. As a solo artist, he made two of the most important albums the genre has ever seen: Amerikkka's Most Wanted and Death Certificate. What's been mostly lost is the fact that Cube didn't just tell all-out shoot 'em up tales. He gave us the full scope of a young man growing up in South Central LA including positive messages, negative actions and social commentary. If he were a movie director (strangely he's not, yet) then most of his imitators would only copy his action scenes without his nuance for story-telling. This is essentially what a large number of so-called gangsta-rappers have done. To paraphrase Michael Eric Dyson, they've replaced the gangsta's story, which is what Cube told, with the gangsta persona: an endless stream of tough talking for no apparent reason other than sounding tough.


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1. Nas
If souls held a physical presence and were labeled within the body, you could cut me open to find mine marked “writer." It's what I love most. How good I am, I'll leave for you to decide. What I've decided about Nas is his is marked the same. And he is a great one. I know that a number of emcees take pride in being able to freestyle, or through methods of memorization, not write down the songs they make. To me, that can easily leave you victim to spouting whatever pops in your head as long as it rhymes, increasing the risk of repetition and saying nonsense in between all the great lines you come up with (I'm looking at you, Li'l Wayne!). Nas writes with great care and passion. He also has lots more on his mind than the average rapper. He has been, at times, insightful, shallow, revolutionary, nihilistic, introspective, arrogant, caring, misogynistic, spiritual, blasphemous, etc. Detractors say it makes him way too self-contradictory. To me, it makes him a whole person. And yes, he can organize it all into what comes out as a ridiculous flow in the booth. His classic debut, Illmatic is still hailed as one of the greatest albums in rap history. His album of just a couple years ago, Hip Hop is Dead is arguably one of its most important. He's survived beef with none other than Jay-Z, with most claiming him the victor before the two settled their differences. His impact is not of others emulating him but more as hip hop's conscience and conversation starter. When Nas says it, it gets talked about and debated endlessly. He's become someone other rappers speak of with reverence. Never the hit maker most of the others on this list are, he has nonetheless become a successful artist in spite of his unwillingness to “dumb it down." Though to be fair, the few attempts he made at mainstream appeal had mostly disastrous results. He needed to be a little different. He needed to experiment. When he did, he gave us Stillmatic, which told us, he wasn't going out just trying to make hit singles. If he was going down, it was going to be because “you" didn't get it.


WHAT!!!
NO TUPAC!!!


Sorry gang, everyone's favorite emcee doesn't make the cut for me. I LIKE TUPAC. I just think he is overrated. Skill-wise, I always thought he was solid but not exceptional. He made up for it with great passion and a willingness to bare his soul. However, with two exceptions Me Against the World and Makavelli, his albums were littered with throwaway tracks with a couple of hit singles. The two I mentioned were great, the latter absolutely brilliant. But then he died. Allegedly. It seems he left us just as he was really starting to hit his stride as an artist. Tupac the personality was far bigger and better than Tupac the rapper.
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Hey Dell, here's what I think of that!!!


In the Cypher (Honorable Mentions)

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Black Thought

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Andre 3000

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Common

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MC Lyte

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Chuck D

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Melle Mel

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Snoop Dogg

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Lauryn Hill


Dell's Faves

1. Nas
2. The Notorious B.I.G.
3. Lauryn Hill
4. Redman
5. Black Thought
6. Method Man
7. Big Daddy Kane
8. Rakim
9. Kool G Rap
10. Jean Grae


And the Worst

1. Soulja Boy
2. The Real Roxanne
3. Vanilla Ice
4. MC Hammer
5. Pras


...now you can start ripping me.
 
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Love seeing LL on the list.

I can definitely understand the Tupac argument and agree that he as a rapper is overrated.

The only one I would take 'issues' with is Ice Cube, but I wasn't all that into his music. And even though he's already #6, fuck it, KRS-One should be higher. He's still dropping solid CDs today. Kristyles is one of my favorite records ever.
 
2Pac not being on that list is indeed blasphemous. If you think his only solid albums from top to bottom is MAW and Makevelli you need to relisten to all of his studio albums. Im not talking about the shit they dropped when he died but All Eyes On Me (Double), Strictly 4 My Niggaz, 2pacalypse Now and Still I Rise which was a collab album with The Outlaws which was released right after he died but he actually recorded that album with them and is one of the most slept on albums in his catalog. The production wasnt mind blowing on his 1st 2 albums but the man was spitting some shit. He got his commercial appeal when All Eyez On Me Dropped and doing that shit with Digital Underground. Pac wasnt raping about the sun the moon and the stars but the man said some shit if you listened. Pac on that list before Eminem 4 sure. That shit has to be a joke.

Also, Scarface = #1. Ill put his catalog up against anyone in the history of the game. Brad is underrated as a lyricist.

Your list, debatable. Some on the list I agree with, some I dont but decent list none the less.

Also, from a strictly concept and lyricist standpoint I have not heard anyone doper than K-Rino in my 27 years of living.
 
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Ph and Snoop doesnt even sniff top 10 if we are staictly talking skill. His lyrics are elementary at best. Only albums from his catalog I feel is the obvious and The Blue Carpet Treatment. He has dropped some garbage in his day.
 
2Pac not being on that list is indeed blasphemous. If you think his only solid albums from top to bottom is MAW and Makevelli you need to relisten to all of his studio albums. Im not talking about the shit they dropped when he died but All Eyes On Me (Double), Strictly 4 My Niggaz, 2pacalypse Now and Still I Rise which was a collab album with The Outlaws which was released right after he died but he actually recorded that album with them and is one of the most slept on albums in his catalog. The production wasnt mind blowing on his 1st 2 albums but the man was spitting some shit. He got his commercial appeal when All Eyez On Me Dropped and doing that shit with Digital Underground. Pac wasnt raping about the sun the moon and the stars but the man said some shit if you listened. Pac on that list before Eminem 4 sure. That shit has to be a joke.

Also, Scarface = #1. Ill put his catalog up against anyone in the history of the game. Brad is underrated as a lyricist.

Your list, debatable. Some on the list I agree with, some I dont but decent list none the less.

Also, from a strictly concept and lyricist standpoint I have not heard anyone doper than K-Rino in my 27 years of living.

That is 2Pac. He wasn't flashy or complex, but dude was raw emotion and when he said something it had meaning...you listened.

He is definitely a Top 10'r.

His best was his first, IMO, 2Pacalypse Now...the production was ehhhh, but the lyrics were as raw as you could get. A album of true urban poetry.

Bucs...give me some must listens for Scarface...haven't given him a listen in a long time, so maybe I am under appreciating. Gimme some definitive albums to give a listen to. Gracias.
 
My absolute favorire album from Face, and probably the most overlooked/slept on in his catalog, is The Untouchable. Hardest shit he dropped hands down from start to finish. Not a single skippable track on that album. You cant go wrong with any Scarface album but his best are:

The Untouchable
The Diary
Last Of A Dying Breed
The Fix

all his other ones are dope but I say these are his gems.
 
Just a correction to my post about Pac. I meant to say he got his commercial appeal when Me Against the World dropped with Temptations and Dear Mama. Was early I was typing faster than I could think.
 
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Ha, me and you used to talk about Face all the time BB.....KOTS and most definitely a top 5 MC

Jadakiss is another MC who doesn't get his due....bar for bar there are not many better...in fact Kiss is on most of your favorite rapper's top 5 list
 
Del is needed.

Me...or this Del...

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Very underrated...but not top 10 imho.

2Pac not being on that list is indeed blasphemous. If you think his only solid albums from top to bottom is MAW and Makevelli you need to relisten to all of his studio albums. Im not talking about the shit they dropped when he died but All Eyes On Me (Double), Strictly 4 My Niggaz, 2pacalypse Now and Still I Rise which was a collab album with The Outlaws which was released right after he died but he actually recorded that album with them and is one of the most slept on albums in his catalog. The production wasnt mind blowing on his 1st 2 albums but the man was spitting some shit. He got his commercial appeal when All Eyez On Me Dropped and doing that shit with Digital Underground. Pac wasnt raping about the sun the moon and the stars but the man said some shit if you listened. Pac on that list before Eminem 4 sure. That shit has to be a joke.

Also, Scarface = #1. Ill put his catalog up against anyone in the history of the game. Brad is underrated as a lyricist.

Your list, debatable. Some on the list I agree with, some I dont but decent list none the less.

Also, from a strictly concept and lyricist standpoint I have not heard anyone doper than K-Rino in my 27 years of living.
I'll cop to having to go back to the old 'Pac stuff - it's been a little while. Still, on almost all of his albums I'd hear 3 or 4 really powerful tracks where he'd rip it and then a bunch of others that were "meh"...until "Makavelli" where you could feel trying to kick his way out of the speaker on every track. BTW, I'm firmly of the position that "All Eyez on Me" is the most overrated hip hop album ever. It was long for no apparent reason other than he had just gotten out of jail. There was one cd worth of really good material and a bunch of crap. Trim all that stuff & its a classic. With it, it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

But I still have no problem with anyone who does have him on there list. Even if they have him #1. He was THAT kind of personality.

And yeah, I can see Scarface #1. I shuffled my list around about 2 dozen times before settling on this. Some included the people I named as HMs ('Pac, too).

Ph and Snoop doesnt even sniff top 10 if we are staictly talking skill. His lyrics are elementary at best. Only albums from his catalog I feel is the obvious and The Blue Carpet Treatment. He has dropped some garbage in his day.
No argument from me...except I'm not only talking skill.

I could see that. He actually wrote a book in 1997 or '98 called "There's A God on the Mic". It's his list of the 50 greatest rappers of all time. IIRC, he ranked himself 4th or 5th (2 spots ahead of rival LL). He named Melle Mel #1.

That is 2Pac. He wasn't flashy or complex, but dude was raw emotion and when he said something it had meaning...you listened.

He is definitely a Top 10'r.

His best was his first, IMO, 2Pacalypse Now...the production was ehhhh, but the lyrics were as raw as you could get. A album of true urban poetry.

Bucs...give me some must listens for Scarface...haven't given him a listen in a long time, so maybe I am under appreciating. Gimme some definitive albums to give a listen to. Gracias.
Covered this, just want to reiterate that "Makavelli" was his best work. That said "When My Homies Call" is prob my fave 'Pac song.

Definitely seek out the 'Face titles Bucs listed. My personal fave among those is "The Fix".

Ha, me and you used to talk about Face all the time BB.....KOTS and most definitely a top 5 MC

Jadakiss is another MC who doesn't get his due....bar for bar there are not many better...in fact Kiss is on most of your favorite rapper's top 5 list

I like Jada. Great if I just wanna hear somebody talk shit & drop punchlines. You're right bar for bar, he goes hard everytime and from that standpoint is one of the best. But there's hardly any depth or resonance (other than "Why"). He and Ludacris fall in that same category for me. Luda's also doesn't get enough credit, strangely because he's been so successful.
 
I agree with the people you have on the list, and i wouldnt put Pac in my top 10 either, and i would have made some type of rom for Slick Rick as he was an unreal story-teller... i would even agree that Nas should be ahead of Jay... but thats where our agreement ends.... Ice Cube above KRS-One, BIG and Jay....ahhh cant agree with that... Amerikkka’s Most Wanted and Death Certificate are classic albums.... but KRS-One's catalog speaks for itself..... most of Jay's catalog is nuts... at least to me.. and BIG, well he only dropped two albums but both of them are classics especially Ready to Die.... was never a big LL fan, so if i had to push someone down a notch for Slick Rick it would be him....
 
I agree with the people you have on the list, and i wouldnt put Pac in my top 10 either, and i would have made some type of rom for Slick Rick as he was an unreal story-teller... i would even agree that Nas should be ahead of Jay... but thats where our agreement ends.... Ice Cube above KRS-One, BIG and Jay....ahhh cant agree with that... Amerikkka’s Most Wanted and Death Certificate are classic albums.... but KRS-One's catalog speaks for itself..... most of Jay's catalog is nuts... at least to me.. and BIG, well he only dropped two albums but both of them are classics especially Ready to Die.... was never a big LL fan, so if i had to push someone down a notch for Slick Rick it would be him....

Cube was not the flashy type lyricist those other guys are but far more depth than Biggie or Jay (not discounting either but nearly every Cube track has real purpose & he rarely made a song just to be a hit). The reason I have him so high is when you look at those two classic albums plus the work he did for NWA (again, the vast majority of the group's lyrics while he was with them were his), its pretty clear his fingerprints are all over the next 2 decades. Because of him, not only did west coast rappers all emulate him but east coast rappers as well since they had to incorporate the gangsta lifestyle to sell records. And honestly, as great as Scarface is (I do have him #9) he's really the dirty south version of Cube when you listen to how he raps.

And yes, Slick Rick is not a bad choice at all to put in your top 10. Amazing storyteller, like you said. He just didn't do enough "other stuff" for me personally to get him on my list. I still have to defend LL because of what he's meant to hip hop AND his catalogue...just go back to his entry in my OP. Lots of guys don't feel LL, its okay.
 
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