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[ALL] Dragon Age II and the Decline of the Old-school RPG

Maynard

stupid ass titles
this is an excellent read and well worth your time.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/116/1168985p1.html

Dragon Age II and the Decline of the Old-school RPG
Evolution or devolution? We examine the RPG genre's move away from its roots, and its cross pollination with other genres.
Australia, May 20, 2011
by Nathaniel Crouch
IGN AU

Playing Dragon Age II for the first time was an eye-opening experience. I'm a big proponent of not spoiling anything to do with the games that I'm excited about – I couldn't, for instance, tell you a single thing about Portal 2 leading up to its release last month. The less I know about a game before I play it, the better the surprise when I finally get my greasy mitts on it for the first time.


It's therefore easy to understand the shock I experienced the first time I placed Dragon Age II into my Xbox 360. Dragon Age II is a jarringly different game to that of its predecessor, both mechanically and thematically. It is not an unenjoyable experience for the most part, but is alarmingly different from that of its forefather. If Dragon Age II had been the first entry of a new series, I would have praised its strong combat system, wonderful cast of characters and Mass Effect-style conversation wheel, however, it was not. Dragon Age II was a sequel to a title that specifically sold itself on its classic RPG bloodline, and for me its deviation from this path was an ultimately disappointing realisation.


I generally prefer my art to be a little more naked, but this is pretty stylish.

Back in the halcyon days of 2008, just prior to the launch of Dragon Age: Origins, Bioware was quick to tout the impressive lineage the title was succeeding, and its continuance of the classic PC RPG. Upon release, it was clear that the game was not without fault; combining an unrelenting level of difficulty, dense storytelling and old-fashioned conversation system, living up to the tropes of its lineage. In the end, it was the parts of the game that I found so challenging that I adored. Whilst the game was far from perfect, its imperfections were what gave it beauty. It was like Billie Piper – adorable for its faults, beautiful for its mistakes.


This is what makes Dragon Age II such a mystifying game. By conventional wisdom, it is a vastly improved sequel – gameplay is far more fluid and dynamic, conversations are much more in-depth and the plotline is intriguing and engaging. But somehow by fixing the "problems" of the first title, Bioware removed the soul and the heritage of the Dragon Age namesake, making it nothing more than another middling RPG. Without the features that made Dragon Age: Origins so unique, the title felt featureless in a cluttered, yet dying genre.

Bioware removed the soul and the heritage of Dragon Age, making it nothing more than another middling RPG.

What's most disappointing is that it is perfectly clear why the decision was made to make the changes. As development costs skyrocket and the aggregate prices of video games remains constant, developers and publishers are forced to walk the line between art and profiteering that the film industry has been doing for years. Unlike the film industry, however, there is no economically feasible way to make an "indie" 120-hour dungeon crawler. Creating a video game is an extraordinarily expensive business venture, so expanding the potential market appeal of a single title is an important investment. Sure, Dragon Age: Origins might have remained true to the spirit of the traditional RPG, but at what cost? While it was a wonderful case of nostalgia, my enjoyment must have come at the cost of huge segments of the market.


According to an Xbox 360 achievement aggregator, only an estimated 52% of players received the achievement for witnessing the end of the game; whilst as many as 10% of total players earned fewer than five achievements. Whilst these statistics are fairly vague, they are representative of the hardcore audience. With such low completion numbers and a sharp loss of players early in the game, it implies a systematic problem exists within its core design. Further, these statistics were from a website for core gamers, dedicated to obtaining as many achievements as possible. If even the hardcore market was turning off in the early stages, something must have been fundamentally wrong. You can't fault EA for getting cold feet and pulling back from the RPG influences.


Dragons it promised and dragons it delivered. BAM!

Nowadays, it seems that gaming is experiencing somewhat of a RPG renaissance. The infamous addition of the perk system to Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare's competitive multiplayer came as a great surprise and, ultimately, a welcome addition. The ability to level up and unlock better, stronger gear was a critically-praised decision that won the admiration of gamers and critics alike. It enticed players away from the Halos and Gears of Wars that inhabited the gaming world back to Call of Duty, paving the way for it to become the biggest franchise in the world.


Following its success, the classic saying, "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" was never truer. All of a sudden the floodgates were opened and every man and his dog were racing to add RPG elements to their titles. Racers (Blur, Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit), re-imagined classics (Hard Corps: Uprising) – hell, even the franchises Call of Duty 4 usurped (Halo: Reach, Gears of War 3) rushed to implement the classic ideals of the RPG genre.


At the same time, however, traditional RPGs (Final Fantasy XIII and Alpha Protocol) were subject to critical scorn and divisive sales figures. It seemed that players wanted the elements of the genre, but not the games themselves. As it stands, on average the only games that achieved critical and commercial acclaim within the genre were those that diluted the classical role-playing elements to incredible extremes, such as Mass Effect 2. This is not a bad thing, as Mass Effect 2 is still arguably the greatest game of its generation. It is simply representative of a shift in the industry and consumer tastes.


Somewhere during the two-year regeneration of Shepard between the first and second titles, the Mass Effect universe gave up on item-carrying and huge skill-trees in favour of simplified, dynamic levelling and looting. By reducing the choice players had in regards to levelling or loot selection, BioWare was able to create a more cohesive and uniform storyline for all players. While this shift worked for Mass Effect, it rang hollow when applied to Dragon Age II. After being sold as the modern re-imagining of the classic PC games of yore, its 180-degree refocus away from the elements that made it so special in the first case made the game feel empty and cold by comparison.


What worked for Shepard wasn't as neat a fit for the Hero of Ferelden.

So what's the final death toll? As it stands currently, it seems that consumers emerge from Dragon Age II as the ultimate winners. Even with its changes to gameplay and presentation, Dragon Age II is a great game worthy of your time. Further, with RPG elements being used in more and more titles, it seems that an evolution of sorts has been undertaken. The RPG is not self sufficient anymore. It serves as a complementary offering in tandem with another genre – the sauce upon a dish, as opposed to the meal itself.


And so, with a heavy heart, it appears we should say goodbye to the RPG genre of old. It's sad to see it go, but its impact is something that will permeate throughout gaming for the rest of eternity, and we can celebrate its rebirth as the ultimate add-on.

Nathaniel Crouch is a freelance writer based in Canberra, Australia. That's our capital city, you know. No, I'm not surprised you haven't heard of it.
 
The same thing was said for the difference between Mass Effect 1 and 2. Everything strayed away from RPG roots and became more action-orientated.

I think we are seeing that now, because these companies are out to make money. Making it appeal more to the masses by taking out a lot of the deep customization that RPGs are known for will do that.

From the Game Informer story on ME3, the development team said they were aiming to go back to the games RPG roots. Lets see if that is the case, or if it is more dumbing down. If its the latter, this story has far greater legs to stand on.
 
It's the consumers' fault, simplicity appeals to the masses so we always get dumbed down games that are just a shell of what they could be. We cheat ourselves by basically asking devs to give us stripped down games when we could be getting more for our money. Then on top of all that we get nickel and dimed with DLC.

Look at Madden, it prides itself on how simple it is and people still rush out at midnight every year to cop it.
 
Dungeon Siege 3. The ultimate trip down memory lane. Mark my words.

Also Hunted Demons Forge may as well be added here as well.
 
Dungeon Siege 3. The ultimate trip down memory lane. Mark my words.

Also Hunted Demons Forge may as well be added here as well.

I hope with DS3 you're right. I fear it will be dumbed down for the console crowd but admittedly I've not followed the title through it's development.

Demon's Forge comes off as more of an action oriented game to me than RPG.


I'm really looking forward to giving The Witcher 2 a try when I can afford to. Also I hope the D&D Daggerdale XBLA game is a hit so they make a series of them. Speaking of D&D I also have hope that Neverwinter is something awesome, but the devs do not have a great track record of making quality games.
 
I prefer the action oriented ones (more like Tales of Vesperia/Symphonia/etc...) compared to the turn based ones like FF.
 
Dragon Age 2 was game of the year for me and nothing else has even come close. Play the game on harder difficulties and theres just as much micromanagement and strategy to every single encounter. The game is an action RPG on normal difficulty, which, the game even tells you when selecting the difficulty. Play it on nightmare, where you can't kill a random spawn in low town without perfectly executed cross class combos and well built characters, and you get your "old school rpg".

Dragon Age 2 took out managing your companions armor, and the lead character got a voice actor. that's pretty much it. On the surface people like to bitch about the dialogue being simplified, but it just looks like mass effect now. even dragon age 1 was essentially "super good, super evil, stupid joke" for its choices, and alot of times it didnt have the joke part.

the guy tosses out "they took it's soul!" and doesn't elaborate on what he means by that, then the rest is just a nerd running wild with numbers. what the fuck are you doing gauging an old school rpg's appeal based on console numbers? how do people even play dragon age without a mouse? you gotta figure with the average age of a console player, they probably werent old enough/alive to even fucking play the "old school titles" like baldurs gate and icewind dale, not to mention the fact that, you know, PC piracy is really easy these days, the economy is shit, and the price of a new video game is equivelent to 2-3 weeks of groceries. there's probably alot of broke motherfuckers out there who loved the game who never logged an official statistic for playing it.

This article is shit, written for hits/comments from people who want to be negative, which is fine, but always remember, the internet is for complaining more than anything else, happy consumers don't take the time to write paragraphs or argue on messageboards, they happily consume!
 
Dragon Age 2 was game of the year for me and nothing else has even come close. Play the game on harder difficulties and theres just as much micromanagement and strategy to every single encounter. The game is an action RPG on normal difficulty, which, the game even tells you when selecting the difficulty. Play it on nightmare, where you can't kill a random spawn in low town without perfectly executed cross class combos and well built characters, and you get your "old school rpg".

Dragon Age 2 took out managing your companions armor, and the lead character got a voice actor. that's pretty much it. On the surface people like to bitch about the dialogue being simplified, but it just looks like mass effect now. even dragon age 1 was essentially "super good, super evil, stupid joke" for its choices, and alot of times it didnt have the joke part.

the guy tosses out "they took it's soul!" and doesn't elaborate on what he means by that, then the rest is just a nerd running wild with numbers. what the fuck are you doing gauging an old school rpg's appeal based on console numbers? how do people even play dragon age without a mouse? you gotta figure with the average age of a console player, they probably werent old enough/alive to even fucking play the "old school titles" like baldurs gate and icewind dale, not to mention the fact that, you know, PC piracy is really easy these days, the economy is shit, and the price of a new video game is equivelent to 2-3 weeks of groceries. there's probably alot of broke motherfuckers out there who loved the game who never logged an official statistic for playing it.

This article is shit, written for hits/comments from people who want to be negative, which is fine, but always remember, the internet is for complaining more than anything else, happy consumers don't take the time to write paragraphs or argue on messageboards, they happily consume!

I don't think you understand what the article is trying to say. At all.
 
I hope with DS3 you're right. I fear it will be dumbed down for the console crowd but admittedly I've not followed the title through it's development.

Demon's Forge comes off as more of an action oriented game to me than RPG.


I'm really looking forward to giving The Witcher 2 a try when I can afford to. Also I hope the D&D Daggerdale XBLA game is a hit so they make a series of them. Speaking of D&D I also have hope that Neverwinter is something awesome, but the devs do not have a great track record of making quality games.

I just started Witcher 2. I am dabbling in it a bit...shit is hardcore. First battle vs some guys and I have died 3 times already. The voice work is great. Check out the quick look from giant bomb great way to check the game out. Those guys are pretty funny too.
 
I don't think you understand what the article is trying to say. At all.

didnt you have me on ignore?

and if you took me off, didn't you read the post where I asked for us to mutually agree that both our shit stinks and to get the fuck over yourself?

the post is appropriate for the thread, if you don't like it, go fuck yourself.
 
didnt you have me on ignore?

and if you took me off, didn't you read the post where I asked for us to mutually agree that both our shit stinks and to get the fuck over yourself?

the post is appropriate for the thread, if you don't like it, go fuck yourself.

lol wut?

I don't even know who you are, I thought you made a poor assessment of the article in my view and now you're raging mad because of my opinion?

You got issues man.
 
I have Diivox on ignore. The fact I still have to see him rambling on about stupid shit because people quoted him bothers me.
 
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DA2 might very well be game of the year worthy...however, despite owning the game, I dont know whether it is or not. the game freezes after the very first wave of darkspawn every time I try to play it...good stuff
 
Eh...I miss the old games because of nostalgia, but I still don't want ME3 to be like Planescape or BG2. It's just a different era. The only reason those games did a lot of that shit was because they had to, IMO.

DA2 is a weird one for me, because there are aspects of it that I think are great, but definitely aspects I can see people being pissed about (the dungeons are unforgivable...that's really it, because that's really the sign that they rushed it).
 
Skyrim has been "dumbed down" as well. I forget exactly what changes they made but the traits/attributes/leveling system is simpler.

They took away some of the attributes so it's not like you're leveling up two things that can fit into one. They got rid of Luck, because no one uses it. I think they combined Acrobatics and Athletics, and they combined some schools of magic. But i wouldn't say that Skyrim has been dumbed down at all.
 
They took away some of the attributes so it's not like you're leveling up two things that can fit into one. They got rid of Luck, because no one uses it. I think they combined Acrobatics and Athletics, and they combined some schools of magic. But i wouldn't say that Skyrim has been dumbed down at all.

Yeah it hasn't been "dumbed down" at all, if anything they just took out all the dumb/pointless things that really served no purpose. There's a difference.
 
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