Warner2BruceTD
2011 Poster Of The Year
I was going to PM this to FedEx because we were talking about it in the chatbox, but figured it might be interesting to you guys so i'm posting it.
Basically, over on the Observer forum, everyone was ripping Gabe Sapolsky after a disasterous radio show appearance with Bryan Alvarez where he went on a huge rant about piracy killing the indie scene (and DGUSA and EVOLVE in particular). They were gang raping Gabe in the thread, and he was dying a slow death with his defensive responses. I gave my two cents on Dragon Gate USA:
...and here was his response (which people ripped him for, because he was supposedly "done with the thread"...lolgabe, he lets these geeks troll him and never learns:
Anyway, I ended up buying one of the shows on the last triple shot, and it was great. I still don't really like Callihan, Sanchez, etc very much. Chuck Taylor has grown on me, though.
Basically, over on the Observer forum, everyone was ripping Gabe Sapolsky after a disasterous radio show appearance with Bryan Alvarez where he went on a huge rant about piracy killing the indie scene (and DGUSA and EVOLVE in particular). They were gang raping Gabe in the thread, and he was dying a slow death with his defensive responses. I gave my two cents on Dragon Gate USA:
The usual suspects who don't like gabe ripping gabe.
Anyway, I was way into ROH during the gabe era, spending tons of money on the product and going to every show in Edison/NYC/Philly for probably a three or four year stretch. My interest in ROH has declined since gabe left. I think he's a superb pro wrestling mind and a great, great booker.
I am very much into Dragon Gate (Japan), and was into DGUSA at the beginning. Basically, i'm someone who should probably be the prime demo of who gabe is trying to reach with DGUSA.
The problem to me, is the talent. As in, bad choices in the U.S. indy talent being used. I have no interest in Sami Callihan, Arik Cannon, Pinkie Sanchez, Chuck Taylor, etc. In fact, guys like Callihan, Cannon, and Sanchez scream indy geek and have go away heat with me. I don't buy DVD's or iPPV's largely because of these types of wrestlers highlighted on the shows. I absolutely love the Japanese DG guys, and I like a few of the indy guys like Ricochet & Gargano, but the rest of the roster is a huge turn off.
The glory period of AmDrag, Joe, Aries, Shelley, Nigel, Punk, etc etc is over because those guys have mostly moved on, and the talent pool is far more shallow than it was 5 or 8 years ago. The ROH roster is as weak as it's ever been. The biggest problem for me with DGUSA is the roster, if they just used the Japanese wrestlers i'd be far more into it. It's watered down Dragon Gate with lame indy guys.
...and here was his response (which people ripped him for, because he was supposedly "done with the thread"...lolgabe, he lets these geeks troll him and never learns:
I know I said I wouldn't jump back in here, but I just want to respond to this post. First of all, thank you to everyone who has some positive words or quality constructive criticism. I gave an honest answer to a question, maybe I went off on too much of a tangent and it wasn't the right forum, but that's what I did. I could have just said we couldn't get another building for EVOLVE 10 and everything is fine and dandy. I think some of my words have been twisted. EVOLVE 10 is an example of something every indy right now faces, but again I'm on a tangent again so I'll stop.
I appreciate this post and the well put criticism in it. I just want to plead my case to give our roster a chance again. While you might not enjoy everyone on the roster, I feel we really feature today's new class of indy stars and everyone is rapidly improving at an unbelievable pace. If you saw these guys a year ago, many of them have improved every facet of their game.
Ricochet, Johnny Gargano and Sami Callihan all deserve serious most improved consideration. I admit I didn't care for Callihan when I first saw him a couple of years ago. When he started with EVOLVE I thought he was an ok guy to fill out the undercard at best. Then he earned his way to DGUSA. Then I saw his drive and how hard he worked to improve. He kept winning me over with every opportunity and now he's a had a great year, highlighted by the Fit Finlay match at EVOLVE 9 and his Mochizuki matches last June in DGUSA and Doi match in September. The Finlay match is my match of the year and Sami's selling and comebacks has a lot to do with that.
On EVOLVE 1, Ricochet had a terrible look, terrible gear, no personality and did some sensational flippy stuff and nothing else. Now Ricochet looks like a star. I sat at ringside for his match in Milwaukee at the last DGUSA show and watched him play with the crowd like a seasoned veteran. Now his incredible athletic stuff is even better, smoother and crisper. I'll put him and CIMA against any team for best team in the business.
I liked Johnny Gargano since the first day I saw him. He will be in WWE one day. He reminds me a great deal of Austin Aries and Alex Shelley, and not a second rate version. He has the drive and attitude of a star. He's a guy that started out in the bonus card fray and did good in that opportunity, so he got a spot in a 6 way on the main show and did good there, so he got a slightly bigger opportunity and did well, which led to another one and another one and another one, each time moving up the card. All of this has been earned and he gets better each passing month. I see a lot of positive buzz around him these days so I know a lot of people agree.
PAC is the total package now- a guy I would pay to see. He's the most exciting, sensational wrestler on the planet today while also being very well rounded. Everything he does is so crisp now. I consider Bryan Danielson to be the #1 guy during my time in ROH. If I could choose either PAC or Bryan to start a promotion now I'd pick PAC. I know some of you would disagree with that and will probably jump all over me, and it is a bold statement, but PAC is that good now.
I'm trying to avoid making this a super long post. I won't get into Brodie Lee, Chuck Taylor, Rich Swann (who has vastly improved since basically moving to Japan after the June shows), AR Fox (who is as can't miss as I've seen and is only going to get better with experience, he's a guy that you will watch grow), Jon Davis (who is following a similar course as Gargano and is quietly putting together a great year) and guys who have shown lots of potential like Uhaa Nation, Scott Reed and Caleb Konley.
This doesn't even include the Dragon Gate side that we will feature this weekend that includes YAMATO, who has been a total "ace" as champion, Akira Tozawa, who should be up there for most outstanding, CIMA, who is an incredibly entertaining heel, Masato Yoshino, who is among the best in the world, and the returning BxB Hulk.
I wouldn't do this if I didn't believe in the talent of those guys. I sure wouldn't book something like the Philly lineup if I didn't think the US indy talent could rise to the occasion.
It takes 6-18 months for new talent to get over. That's the case 90% of the time and if you look at how guys rose during my time in ROH it was a 6-18 month process. We started our "homegrown roster" about 6-18 months and now we are really seeing the benefits.
Not every roster is going to be perfect, but all our guys bring something different to the shows and if you saw them just 4-6 months ago, they have all grown into their roles and several have improved every facet of their game. Give them another chance. At the very least I promise we'll have exciting, fresh shows. Thanks for your support in the past and for reading this.
Anyway, I ended up buying one of the shows on the last triple shot, and it was great. I still don't really like Callihan, Sanchez, etc very much. Chuck Taylor has grown on me, though.