FirstTimer
Freeman Error
Work is slow so I just kind of put this together during the course of the day:
I'll agree with the overall consensus here that Weis should go after this season. I have always been one of the biggest supporters or "fanboys" of the guy since he set foot on campus but they way they have tanked at the end of the last two season shows me now that this is the time for him to be let go.
Weis numbers as a coach speak for themselves, I won't try to defend them, especially in light of this season, because there is no excuse. Going back to 2005 and 2006 those seasons were unforeseen gifts. Nobody expected Quinn to turn into the greatest QB in Notre Dame history(statistically) after a very non-descript start to his career, and no one expected such a quick turnaround into the college football elite and two straight BCS bowls so quickly after the Willingham firing when the team looked so lifeless in 2003 and 2004. I was willing to put up with the 3-9 2007 season for the simple fact that I saw it coming halfway through 2006 and knew based on the Ty's lack of recruiting that there was going to be a massive talent vacuum that year and that I would have to wait 2-3 season to see the fruits of Weis' recruiting efforts which were top notch during his time here.
2008 was frustrating after such a great start to the year that it looked like the team couldn't learn how to finish games. 2008's team was three 4th quarters away from being 9-3. You saw the progress and everyone had their eyes towards this season to see a talented, mature, and deep Irish team go to a BCS bowl.
This has been by far the most frustrating season I can remember as a Notre Dame fan. I try to not let it cloud my judgment on Weis and climb on the lynch mob bandwagon with blind hate. It is difficult however. For whatever reason this team just can't win. It has one of the top quarterbacks in the country, a kid who will most likely be a Top 10 pick if he goes pro this year. They also have an experienced and solid offensive line, a deep running back stable, not to mention guys at WR and TE who are among the best, if not THE best players at their positions in the country. Think about that, this Notre Dame team has most likely four 1st round draft pick position players. The defense is loaded with talent along the defensive line and the defensive backs coming into this season were seen as the deepest group since the early 1990's.
This team should have won 9 games minimum. There was no excuse for anything less.
The best they can do now is 8-5. A 7-6 repeat of last year looks more and more likely.
When a team this talented fails, it has to fall back to coaching. They haven't been blown out all season so you know they are talented enough to play with any team they face, but something keeps them from taking that extra step...and for this you have to blame Weis and the staff he has assembled.
It's easy to dislike Weis. He's cocky, brash, arrogant at times and it rubs people the wrong way. Throw in his weight problem and he's a big target (pun intended) to aim hate at. What's really too bad is that Weis is so unpopular now that I know Notre Dame "fans" rooting for this team to look simply to get Weis out of town. That's just sad. I know boosters who feel slighted by Weis who are licking their chops at each Notre Dame loss. These boosters dislike Weis because he would not bend over backwards to or go out of his way kiss their asses. If Weis was successful it wouldn’t be an issue but now the enemies Weis has made are coming out of the woodwork to put the final nails in his coffin as coach at Notre Dame.
I will say though the personal attacks have gone too far, both by those outside the university and those inside of it. For all of Weis' personality flaws he is an alum. He gets Notre Dame. He understands what Notre Dame stands for and what is about. He embraces Notre Dame. Something that Willingham and Davie never quite could. You see it in actions he takes, such as the "Pass Right" incident, the foundation and complex he built for the Hannah and Friends Foundation, the type of players he recruits, and his graduation rate of those players(tops in the nation tied with Duke). The way he treats opposing players and the respect he shows for them. Weis is a good guy, he's a Notre Dame guy and always will be. He's not perfect and has flaws but when he was winning no one at Notre Dame cared if he came off as kind of a dick at times. He was winning and doing everything else behind the scenes a coach at Notre Dame should do. He was our guy. And until he is fired he will continue to be my guy. Do I think he should keep his job? No. But I'm not going to throw the guy under the bus because even for his shortcomings as coach I appreciate what he has done for this program over the last five years.
It's sad for me as a fan that it has come to this. Now all we see is the constant comparisons to Willingham, but outside of their similar records that's where the comparisons really end. I have always liked Willingham. I think he's a class act, a good person, and I have nothing bad to say about him personally. That being said, he was not a good coach at Notre Dame and his firing was the right move at the time and still is six years after it happened. Willingham never really bought into the Irish, because honestly I don't think Notre Dame ever bought into him. He was the third choice for the job after an average run at Stanford, went 8-0 with smoke and mirrors, and never really embraced what being coach at Notre Dame was about off the field as far as public appearances, etc went. Willingham began failing on the field, off the field, on the recruiting trail, and it began to spiral out of control. Most Notre Dame fans will remember going to the Carrier Dome and losing to Syracuse and the team basically rolling over and giving up on Ty. It was sad...and this was a full season before he was let go. The team just gave up on him and if there had been a knock 0ut candidate he would have been gone after the 2003 season. The team slept walk through 2004, and even though they feigned outrage at his firing but most people in the program knew it was the right choice and knew the program was headed in the wrong direction. Willingham for as nice a guy as he was/is did not leave the program in better shape than he found it.
Weis on the other hand will. The cupboard is not anywhere near as bare as it seemed/was when Willingham left. The next coach will have more than enough talent to make a very good run in 2010 and the depth is there to continue those runs into the future without the drop off seen in 2007 as a result of the talent vacuum. Weis showed that Notre Dame can recruit head to head with the likes of USC, Florida, etc and more than hold their own while still bringing in quality character kids who will graduate. Weis proved you can bring in legitimate talent to the program while still being able to uphold the academic and ethical traditions the school prides itself on. He got the univeristy to approve early enrollment for athletes, which will continue to pay dividends. These kids and this team believe in Weis. They have never rolled over and died and given up on him. For all his flaws as a coach I think this should still be pointed out. It speaks to his ability as a coach as well as a person. Whoever the next coach of the Irish will be will be taking on a team people think should be competing for a major bowl and 8-9 wins. When Weis stepped on campus some people(Mark May etc.) thought the Irish would start the season 1-6. Will Weis be around to see the fruits of his labor? 99.9% no. But the true Notre Dame fans will at least respect what he has done for the program over his time here, even with the shortcomings that have occurred.
I will say this though. Should Weis be fired? Yes. However if Notre Dame goes through and fires him they absolutely must know they are going to get their guy. They have to be sure and know 110% beyond a shadow of the doubt that the new guy they are bringing in is an upgrade over Weis and not a second or third choice. We can't have another O'Leary/Gruden/Willingham debacle of 2001 and we cannot have an Urban Meyer issue like we had in 2004. Notre Dame should have the new coach walking down the hall to sign the contract as Weis leaves. It needs to be a top notch proven college winner and they can't settle. If Notre Dame is going to fire Weis simply to appease the blood thirsty mob then they are doing it for the wrong reasons and he should at that point, and only under those circumstances, come back for 2010.
Who should be the next coach of Notre Dame? In my opinion it needs to be either Brian Kelly, Gary Patterson, Bob Stoops, or Jon Gruden. Anything less than one of these four is unacceptable. I don't want to see Urban Meyer near campus and frankly I think Meyer coming is nothing but a pipe dream and isn't the right type of guy for the job anyways.
No matter who the next coach is though I will not forget what Weis did for this program, good and bad, and in the end will hopefully one day look back on his time as coach and be able to point out the seeds of what eventually helped Notre Dame return to being a perennial national power under the right coach….whoever that may be.
Go Irish. Beat Stanford.
I'll agree with the overall consensus here that Weis should go after this season. I have always been one of the biggest supporters or "fanboys" of the guy since he set foot on campus but they way they have tanked at the end of the last two season shows me now that this is the time for him to be let go.
Weis numbers as a coach speak for themselves, I won't try to defend them, especially in light of this season, because there is no excuse. Going back to 2005 and 2006 those seasons were unforeseen gifts. Nobody expected Quinn to turn into the greatest QB in Notre Dame history(statistically) after a very non-descript start to his career, and no one expected such a quick turnaround into the college football elite and two straight BCS bowls so quickly after the Willingham firing when the team looked so lifeless in 2003 and 2004. I was willing to put up with the 3-9 2007 season for the simple fact that I saw it coming halfway through 2006 and knew based on the Ty's lack of recruiting that there was going to be a massive talent vacuum that year and that I would have to wait 2-3 season to see the fruits of Weis' recruiting efforts which were top notch during his time here.
2008 was frustrating after such a great start to the year that it looked like the team couldn't learn how to finish games. 2008's team was three 4th quarters away from being 9-3. You saw the progress and everyone had their eyes towards this season to see a talented, mature, and deep Irish team go to a BCS bowl.
This has been by far the most frustrating season I can remember as a Notre Dame fan. I try to not let it cloud my judgment on Weis and climb on the lynch mob bandwagon with blind hate. It is difficult however. For whatever reason this team just can't win. It has one of the top quarterbacks in the country, a kid who will most likely be a Top 10 pick if he goes pro this year. They also have an experienced and solid offensive line, a deep running back stable, not to mention guys at WR and TE who are among the best, if not THE best players at their positions in the country. Think about that, this Notre Dame team has most likely four 1st round draft pick position players. The defense is loaded with talent along the defensive line and the defensive backs coming into this season were seen as the deepest group since the early 1990's.
This team should have won 9 games minimum. There was no excuse for anything less.
The best they can do now is 8-5. A 7-6 repeat of last year looks more and more likely.
When a team this talented fails, it has to fall back to coaching. They haven't been blown out all season so you know they are talented enough to play with any team they face, but something keeps them from taking that extra step...and for this you have to blame Weis and the staff he has assembled.
It's easy to dislike Weis. He's cocky, brash, arrogant at times and it rubs people the wrong way. Throw in his weight problem and he's a big target (pun intended) to aim hate at. What's really too bad is that Weis is so unpopular now that I know Notre Dame "fans" rooting for this team to look simply to get Weis out of town. That's just sad. I know boosters who feel slighted by Weis who are licking their chops at each Notre Dame loss. These boosters dislike Weis because he would not bend over backwards to or go out of his way kiss their asses. If Weis was successful it wouldn’t be an issue but now the enemies Weis has made are coming out of the woodwork to put the final nails in his coffin as coach at Notre Dame.
I will say though the personal attacks have gone too far, both by those outside the university and those inside of it. For all of Weis' personality flaws he is an alum. He gets Notre Dame. He understands what Notre Dame stands for and what is about. He embraces Notre Dame. Something that Willingham and Davie never quite could. You see it in actions he takes, such as the "Pass Right" incident, the foundation and complex he built for the Hannah and Friends Foundation, the type of players he recruits, and his graduation rate of those players(tops in the nation tied with Duke). The way he treats opposing players and the respect he shows for them. Weis is a good guy, he's a Notre Dame guy and always will be. He's not perfect and has flaws but when he was winning no one at Notre Dame cared if he came off as kind of a dick at times. He was winning and doing everything else behind the scenes a coach at Notre Dame should do. He was our guy. And until he is fired he will continue to be my guy. Do I think he should keep his job? No. But I'm not going to throw the guy under the bus because even for his shortcomings as coach I appreciate what he has done for this program over the last five years.
It's sad for me as a fan that it has come to this. Now all we see is the constant comparisons to Willingham, but outside of their similar records that's where the comparisons really end. I have always liked Willingham. I think he's a class act, a good person, and I have nothing bad to say about him personally. That being said, he was not a good coach at Notre Dame and his firing was the right move at the time and still is six years after it happened. Willingham never really bought into the Irish, because honestly I don't think Notre Dame ever bought into him. He was the third choice for the job after an average run at Stanford, went 8-0 with smoke and mirrors, and never really embraced what being coach at Notre Dame was about off the field as far as public appearances, etc went. Willingham began failing on the field, off the field, on the recruiting trail, and it began to spiral out of control. Most Notre Dame fans will remember going to the Carrier Dome and losing to Syracuse and the team basically rolling over and giving up on Ty. It was sad...and this was a full season before he was let go. The team just gave up on him and if there had been a knock 0ut candidate he would have been gone after the 2003 season. The team slept walk through 2004, and even though they feigned outrage at his firing but most people in the program knew it was the right choice and knew the program was headed in the wrong direction. Willingham for as nice a guy as he was/is did not leave the program in better shape than he found it.
Weis on the other hand will. The cupboard is not anywhere near as bare as it seemed/was when Willingham left. The next coach will have more than enough talent to make a very good run in 2010 and the depth is there to continue those runs into the future without the drop off seen in 2007 as a result of the talent vacuum. Weis showed that Notre Dame can recruit head to head with the likes of USC, Florida, etc and more than hold their own while still bringing in quality character kids who will graduate. Weis proved you can bring in legitimate talent to the program while still being able to uphold the academic and ethical traditions the school prides itself on. He got the univeristy to approve early enrollment for athletes, which will continue to pay dividends. These kids and this team believe in Weis. They have never rolled over and died and given up on him. For all his flaws as a coach I think this should still be pointed out. It speaks to his ability as a coach as well as a person. Whoever the next coach of the Irish will be will be taking on a team people think should be competing for a major bowl and 8-9 wins. When Weis stepped on campus some people(Mark May etc.) thought the Irish would start the season 1-6. Will Weis be around to see the fruits of his labor? 99.9% no. But the true Notre Dame fans will at least respect what he has done for the program over his time here, even with the shortcomings that have occurred.
I will say this though. Should Weis be fired? Yes. However if Notre Dame goes through and fires him they absolutely must know they are going to get their guy. They have to be sure and know 110% beyond a shadow of the doubt that the new guy they are bringing in is an upgrade over Weis and not a second or third choice. We can't have another O'Leary/Gruden/Willingham debacle of 2001 and we cannot have an Urban Meyer issue like we had in 2004. Notre Dame should have the new coach walking down the hall to sign the contract as Weis leaves. It needs to be a top notch proven college winner and they can't settle. If Notre Dame is going to fire Weis simply to appease the blood thirsty mob then they are doing it for the wrong reasons and he should at that point, and only under those circumstances, come back for 2010.
Who should be the next coach of Notre Dame? In my opinion it needs to be either Brian Kelly, Gary Patterson, Bob Stoops, or Jon Gruden. Anything less than one of these four is unacceptable. I don't want to see Urban Meyer near campus and frankly I think Meyer coming is nothing but a pipe dream and isn't the right type of guy for the job anyways.
No matter who the next coach is though I will not forget what Weis did for this program, good and bad, and in the end will hopefully one day look back on his time as coach and be able to point out the seeds of what eventually helped Notre Dame return to being a perennial national power under the right coach….whoever that may be.
Go Irish. Beat Stanford.
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