Hmmmm...

[Warner2BruceTD]

Player A: Age 26, 232 IP, 3.06 ERA, 8.7 K/9, 2.2 BB/9, 122 ERA+, 4.6 WAR, Home Park factor: 0.687

Player B: Age 24, 209 IP, 3.43 ERA, 8.0 K/9, 2.8 BB/9, 122 ERA+, 4.2 WAR, Home Park factor: 1.113

 

[SuperKevin]

I hate these blind player comparisons because I never have any clue as to who they are

 

[Primetime]

I hate these blind player comparisons because I never have any clue as to who they are

Pretty sure this is a blind test to compare which Upton brother is better. Has to be.

 

[MVPete]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/latosma01.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hernafe02.shtml

 

[Goober]

One more stat, just for fun:
Player A - 6.1 fWAR
Player B - 3.1 fWAR

 

[Slateman]

Player A

 

[Garrett67]

Uptons don't pitch.


Player A

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

One more stat, just for fun:
Player A - 6.1 fWAR
Player B - 3.1 fWAR

Which is actually another shining example of WAR being highly questionable. One of those guys was worth "double" the other last season? Look at the numbers. 23 innings cant matter THAT much?

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I hate these blind player comparisons because I never have any clue as to who they are

kind of the point

 

[Villain]

Uptons don't pitch.

:yadontsay:

 

[SuperKevin]

kind of the point

I don't care about stats unless I can see who it is though

 

[Leftwich]

Can i have their FIP please.

 

[Goober]

Which is actually another shining example of WAR being highly questionable. One of those guys was worth "double" the other last season? Look at the numbers. 23 innings cant matter THAT much?

I think the difference in value is realistic. One player was a Cy Young candidate, the second best pitcher in all of MLB last year. The other guy is just a middle of the rotation schmuck who gave up a ton of home runs.

 

[FedEx227]

It's definitely Player A.

And player A's WAR should be higher if he's striking out almost 1 full batter per 9 innings.

 

[Goober]

Just for fun, let me throw out another player, that makes a better anti WAR argument then anything that Warner has ever brought up.

Player C: Age 28, 205.1 IP, 4.82 ERA, 7.28 K/9, 2.98 BB/9, 90 ERA+, 3.3 fWAR, 1.206 Home Park Factor.

Same year as the other two players Warner brought up originally. This is the most bizarre WAR total for an individual season I have ever seen. At first I honestly questioned whether it was due to a glitch in fangraph's system. The takeaway, in my opinion is that WAR is a great table setter, however it also has its limits. You still have to ask, okay why is this player's WAR the number that it is? What components go into it? And WAR is not a perfect number. A player with a WAR a few decimal points higher then another, does not settle the argument over which player is better. It's like rudi and berowsk arguing who is better looking.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I think the difference in value is realistic. One player was a Cy Young candidate, the second best pitcher in all of MLB last year. The other guy is just a middle of the rotation schmuck who gave up a ton of home runs.

The numbers dont support what youre saying. A had a slightly better year across the board. Only huge difference was innings pitched. Run prevention was identical.

fWAR sucks for pitchers. Obviously based strongly on the goofy FIP stat which is useless & redundant.

It's definitely Player A.

And player A's WAR should be higher if he's striking out almost 1 full batter per 9 innings.

There is no debate A had the better year. Not meant to be a one vs the other thread. I was just surprised how similar they were last season. And my issue isnt that A has a higher WAR, its that the fWAR is nearly double. He wasnt THAT much better by anything measurable. I think bWAR kicks fWAR ass when it comes to pitchers.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I don't care about stats unless I can see who it is though

Again, kind of the point, to take away any pre conceived biases/reputations attached to the names.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

This want meant to a be a WAR attack thread or "which guy is better" thread. I just find the side by side interesting, since A was universally lauded for having a great year, and B was ripped by some (well, after April just NAHSTE, but that was fantasy angst/trolling).

 

[NAHSTE]

Just for fun, let me throw out another player, that makes a better anti WAR argument then anything that Warner has ever brought up.

Player C: Age 28, 205.1 IP, 4.82 ERA, 7.28 K/9, 2.98 BB/9, 90 ERA+, 3.3 fWAR, 1.206 Home Park Factor.

Same year as the other two players Warner brought up originally. This is the most bizarre WAR total for an individual season I have ever seen. At first I honestly questioned whether it was due to a glitch in fangraph's system.

Well WAR being cumulative tends to help guys who play full seasons. A pitcher being slightly below average for 200 innings is more valuable than one who is slightly below average for 150, etc.

And I never gave up on Tat Latos, warner. He is a fine man and an even better pitcher.

 

[FedEx227]

There is no debate A had the better year. Not meant to be a one vs the other thread. I was just surprised how similar they were last season. And my issue isnt that A has a higher WAR, its that the fWAR is nearly double. He wasnt THAT much better by anything measurable. I think bWAR kicks fWAR ass when it comes to pitchers.

Got it. Makes more sense now, I hadn't read a ton of the other comments in the thread before replying so I assumed it was a "Who had a better year?" debate and yeah, no question.

the bWAR vs. fWAR thing is pretty tiring. I always struggle with it personally as Baseball Reference is my go-to for most statistics because their relatively easy layout so a lot of times I check out the WAR there and call it a day. I know they do them differently and the nerd in my should probably use fWAR as I agree with it's calculations more, but man, I really don't care that much.