Jim Calhoun's Place in History

[dell71]

UConn head basketball coach just became only the 5th coach in NCAA Men's Basketball history to have won at least 3 national titles. Is he among the top 5 college basketball coaches of all time?

Discuss.

 

[Sharkweather]

Wooden, Knight, Rupp, Krzyzewski, Smith.

 

[Senser81]

UConn head basketball coach just became only the 5th coach in NCAA Men's Basketball history to have won at least 3 national titles. Is he among the top 5 college basketball coaches of all time?

Discuss.

No. He is a great coach and an underrated coach, but I think too much is being made of his 3 national titles. He was a fine coach at Northeastern, and he eventually built up UConn so that it was a top program in the mid-90's, but I don't see the long-term consistent excellence that would be found with guys like Dean Smith and Coach K. There have been too many bumps in the road between those title-winning years. And, honestly, even his title-winning teams weren't that strong.

That said, I do have another comment to make. I heard that Roy Williams has already been inducted to the HOF...huh? I wouldn't let Roy Williams coach a junior high team. Jim Calhoun's resume is immensely stronger than Williams'. Williams took over a title-winning program at Kansas and always lost big in the tournament, he took over a title-winning program at UNC and was handed a title against Illinois before resuming his typical underachievement...I don't get it.

I would take Calhoun over most coaches in the NCAA right now, but his name doesn't immediately spring to mind when I think of top coaches. Even though they haven't won as many titles, I think guys like Pitino and Izzo almost always have tough teams. Calhoun's teams sometimes appear to lack discipline.

 

[SuperKevin]

He's a Hall of Famer yes but his recruiting violations and player conduct this past decade are tarnishing his legacy too much to be in the top 5 of all time

 

[Senser81]

He's a Hall of Famer yes but his recruiting violations and player conduct this past decade are tarnishing his legacy too much to be in the top 5 of all time

I think thats somewhat of a cop-out. One, the actual transgression that Calhoun was nailed for was ridiculous. Two, while some of his players have acted up, should that really affect his place in coaching history? I don't know.

On a side note, even if Calhoun ran a squeeky-clean program, I still wouldn't put him in the top 5 all time.

 

[kmanharris]

No. He is a great coach and an underrated coach, but I think too much is being made of his 3 national titles. He was a fine coach at Northeastern, and he eventually built up UConn so that it was a top program in the mid-90's, but I don't see the long-term consistent excellence that would be found with guys like Dean Smith and Coach K. There have been too many bumps in the road between those title-winning years. And, honestly, even his title-winning teams weren't that strong.

His title winning teams weren't that strong? Is that some kind of an oxymoron? I understand what you are trying to say but its not like they were handed a championship. They still have to play in the tournament, just like every other team. They still have to go up against the "best" teams in the nation to win it.

He's a Hall of Famer yes but his recruiting violations and player conduct this past decade are tarnishing his legacy too much to be in the top 5 of all time

Oh, the one violation where a manager was texting a player to boost his career and the player was immediately suspended before ever stepping foot onto the court for Uconn. No practices, no games, no nothing. He was suspended for "failing to create an atmosphere of compliance within his program." AKA, the NCAA couldn't find any hard evidence and hit him with what they could.

Are you also one of those people who thinks this year's championship is going to be vacated in a few years because of his "recruiting violations?"

 

[dell71]

No. He is a great coach and an underrated coach, but I think too much is being made of his 3 national titles. He was a fine coach at Northeastern, and he eventually built up UConn so that it was a top program in the mid-90's, but I don't see the long-term consistent excellence that would be found with guys like Dean Smith and Coach K. There have been too many bumps in the road between those title-winning years. And, honestly, even his title-winning teams weren't that strong.

That said, I do have another comment to make. I heard that Roy Williams has already been inducted to the HOF...huh? I wouldn't let Roy Williams coach a junior high team. Jim Calhoun's resume is immensely stronger than Williams'. Williams took over a title-winning program at Kansas and always lost big in the tournament, he took over a title-winning program at UNC and was handed a title against Illinois before resuming his typical underachievement...I don't get it.

I would take Calhoun over most coaches in the NCAA right now, but his name doesn't immediately spring to mind when I think of top coaches. Even though they haven't won as many titles, I think guys like Pitino and Izzo almost always have tough teams. Calhoun's teams sometimes appear to lack discipline.

I agree with most of this, but I do think you're selling Roy Williams a little short. I think you're spot-on about his time in Kansas, but I have a different take on his time at UNC. While he won his first title with someone else's players, they were a bunch of headcases that the guy who recruited them couldn't deal with. To get them, especially McCants and May, to give enough effort to win the title was no easy task. He built his 2nd title team and will have good teams for years to come because he's a fantastic recruiter.

True, when it comes to x's and o's, he's lacking severely. He simply wants his teams to push the ball down your throat and if that isn't working, his usual adjustment is to keep pushing the ball. That said, I would say other than the 2009-10 team his UNC teams haven't underachieved (possibly the team from Hansbrough's jr year). I would say this season's team overachieved (mostly because I think their pre-season ranking in the top 10 was a joke largely based on the fact that they're UNC). But yes, if I'm listing the coaches I want to have in the last few minutes of a close game it will be a long time before I get to Roy Williams.

As for Calhoun, like I said I pretty much agree with what you've said.

 

[Senser81]

His title winning teams weren't that strong? Is that some kind of an oxymoron? I understand what you are trying to say but its not like they were handed a championship. They still have to play in the tournament, just like every other team. They still have to go up against the "best" teams in the nation to win it.

They won the title in those years, but they weren't powerhouses. Calhoun had a nice team with Richard Hamilton, but their win over Duke was a huge upset. His 2004 team was really good, but I think his best team was his 2006 team, and they lost to George Mason. This year's team was above-average, but one of the weakest teams to ever win a title. If you look at the guys who have won 3+ titles, you think of Coach K's Laettner-Hurley-Hill teams, Wooden's Alcindor and Walton teams, Bob Knight's undefeated 1976 team. You don't think of Kemba Walker and Jim Calhoun.

 

[Senser81]

I agree with most of this, but I do think you're selling Roy Williams a little short. I think you're spot-on about his time in Kansas, but I have a different take on his time at UNC. While he won his first title with someone else's players, they were a bunch of headcases that the guy who recruited them couldn't deal with. To get them, especially McCants and May, to give enough effort to win the title was no easy task. He built his 2nd title team and will have good teams for years to come because he's a fantastic recruiter.

I had honestly forgotten that UNC won the title in 2009. I had to look it up on the internet and see who they played (Michigan State). I guess that changes my perception of Williams, because at least he won a title with his own players.

 

[kmanharris]

They won the title in those years, but they weren't powerhouses. Calhoun had a nice team with Richard Hamilton, but their win over Duke was a huge upset. His 2004 team was really good, but I think his best team was his 2006 team, and they lost to George Mason. This year's team was above-average, but one of the weakest teams to ever win a title. If you look at the guys who have won 3+ titles, you think of Coach K's Laettner-Hurley-Hill teams, Wooden's Alcindor and Walton teams, Bob Knight's undefeated 1976 team. You don't think of Kemba Walker and Jim Calhoun.

They weren't powerhouses, agreed, but saying they weren't strong isn't right either. If anything, the title this year should help make Calhoun's case. He had a team with 3 starting freshman (Lamb, Smith, Olander), a sophomore in Oriaki and Walker. He coached them to a national title. If that's not a great coaching job, I don't know what is.