Josh Rosenthal & Kim Winslow Should Be Praised

[Warner2BruceTD]

Two tremendous referee jobs, in two very high profile situations.

It's gotten very frustrating listening to casual fans (and hardcores who should know better) whine and cry about allowing both Brock Lesnar & Jan Finney to conitinue. It's pretty clear that people do not understand the role of the referee.

The refs job is to protect the fighters. Not judge the fight. A fighter completely dominating a fight is not grounds to stop the fight.

If a fighter is no longer protecting themselves, the fight should be stopped. If a fighter can no longer continue, the fight should be stopped. Both Brock Lesnar, and Jan Finney (until the point it was finally stopped), were protecting themselves at all times. Both fighters reponded when asked to "move" or "fight back". In the case of Finney, whenever Winslow ordered a standup, she came out aggressively and stood and banged with Cyborg, and even landed a few decent shots. In the case of Lesnar, he never reached the point where he was not protecting himself, or could not continue. He even escaped from the bottom and stood up at the end of round 1, showing that a stoppage would have been a travesty.

Again, it's not the refs job to judge the fight, or stop it based on dominance. That's why judges are there. That's what 10-8 (or even 10-7) rounds are for.

Finney fought her heart out, and the performance has apparently earned her a spot with SF, as Coker has promised he another fight. Good for her. A premature stoppage would have sent he packing, never to be heard from again.

Lesnar was clearly able to continue, because he won the fight.

Bad beating does not = stoppage, a fighter no longer protecting himself or badly hurt = stoppage. Both of these fights were officiated perfectly, and the Finney fight wasnt stopped a single second too late. Stop the madness and understand the refs job.

 

[Liquidrob]

great thread, I made a post like this about these 2 refs after there fights, thats how it should be, it is still a fight and let the fighters fight, I hate earlier stoppages and you are robbing the fighters

I wanted Carwin to win, but clearly Brock was not beaten in the first, he took a beating, but Carwin could barely move in round 2, Brock survived and won

Same thing with Jan, she got her ass kicked but came out throwing and landing in the 2nd

 

[Liquidrob]

The only critic for Kim was the stand ups were to quick and akward when she would ask Cyborg if she wanted Jan up and Cyborg had no idea what she was saying

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

I dont have a problem with refs allowing fights to go on.. I love it infact. I do however have a problem with refs being told or pressured not to stop fights, and there is still little doubt in my mind that was the case this past weekend.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I like the fact that Rosenthal didn't stop the fight this weekend, but I think 9/10 times that fight is stopped...there was a point where Brock was obviously looped and I wouldn't have blamed Rosenthal if he did end it...I am glad he didn't, but he could have and we'd be all aboard the Carwin band wagon.

 

[RosettaStoned]

It was tough to watch Finney take that beating for me... sexist I know.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I dont have a problem with refs allowing fights to go on.. I love it infact. I do however have a problem with refs being told or pressured not to stop fights, and there is still little doubt in my mind that was the case this past weekend.

None of these orgs have any control over the refs or judges. I bet Dana wishes he did, but he doesnt.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Rosenthal told both fighters in the locker room, if you are down and being pounded, I will ask you to move or react three times. If you don't react by the third time, I will stop the fight.

Rosenthal said in the first round, Lesnar got to the second warning once, and it took one warning two other times.

This is probably why you don't hear any noise out of the Carwin side, and why 99% of the MMA media had no problem with it.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

None of these orgs have any control over the refs or judges. I bet Dana wishes he did, but he doesnt.

Ive heard this in the past, but it leads me to ask why does Big John never do UFC events? Is this a choice thing from the refs or what?

And regardless, Dana didnt have to pick the ref to pay him off or try to put pressure on him. That could be done in the locker room pre-fight. Call me a conspirator.. just how I see it.

 

[EmpireWF]

Ive heard this in the past, but it leads me to ask why does Big John never do UFC events? Is this a choice thing from the refs or what?

Big John doesn't have a reffing license in Nevada.

As far as why he never gets picked to do UFC events in California...he just doesn't. Don't think there's a a rhyme or reason.


And btw, you're "idea" of Dana White shaking down these refs backstage...LMAO

give it up man, you look more looney every time you start up again

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

And btw, you're "idea" of Dana White shaking down these refs backstage...LMAO

give it up man, you look more looney every time you start up again

I really dont see why this is laughable or inconceivable, especially from a guy like Dana. Keep drinking the juice Zombie boy. Everything is bubble gum and candy drops in the MMA world.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

Double post.

 

[EmpireWF]

I really dont see why this is laughable or inconceivable, especially from a guy like Dana. Keep drinking the juice Zombie boy. Everything is bubble gum and candy drops in the MMA world.

Okay.

So Dana White influencing refs backstage to favor a certain outcome is serious for you.

Besides the fact that there are always TONS of people backstage and the fact that ATHLETIC COMMISSIONS are ALWAYS INVOLVED.

You really think Dana or anyone else with Zuffa would risk everything they've built to work a ref?

LMAO

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

Okay.

So Dana White influencing refs backstage to favor a certain outcome is serious for you.

Besides the fact that there are always TONS of people backstage and the fact that ATHLETIC COMMISSIONS are ALWAYS INVOLVED.

You really think Dana or anyone else with Zuffa would risk everything they've built to work a ref?

LMAO

Dude, do you honestly believe shit like this doesnt go on? Money talks.. and also keeps mouths shut at the same time. Whether or not you think this was the case in the Brock fight is your opinion, but to think this is inconceivable is just being naive.

Dont think judges cant be paid off or dont judge corruptly either.. because its been pretty clear to everyone that that could easily be the case. Corruption in this sport, and any other sport is a very real thing, and can be brought out in several different forms.

 

[EmpireWF]

Dude, do you honestly believe shit like this doesnt go on? Money talks.. and also keeps mouths shut at the same time. Whether or not you think this was the case in the Brock fight is your opinion, but to think this is inconceivable is just being naive.

Dont think judges cant be paid off or dont judge corruptly either.. because its been pretty clear to everyone that that could easily be the case. Corruption in this sport, and any other sport is a very real thing, and can be brought out in several different forms.

Saying it's possible is one thing.

Saying it happened in Brock/Carwin is a totally different thing.

B/c you don't agree with how the fight went down does not automatically mean it wasn't on the up & up.

Lastly....damn all those judges/refs/whoeverthefuck for taking the money!!!!

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

Saying it's possible is one thing.

Saying it happened in Brock/Carwin is a totally different thing.

B/c you don't agree with how the fight went down does not automatically mean it wasn't on the up & up.

Lastly....damn all those judges/refs/whoeverthefuck for taking the money!!!!

I never claimed anything as a fact, I said that was what I think happened and you went directly for my brain like a good Zombie boy. You'd think I was fucking your boyfriend Dana and you were jealous at how fucking upset you've gotten over this. Keep it up big guy, soon enough you'll be named Zombie leader.

 

[EmpireWF]

I never claimed anything as a fact, I said that was what I think happened and you went directly for my brain like a good Zombie boy. You'd think I was fucking your boyfriend Dana and you were jealous at how fucking upset you've gotten over this. Keep it up big guy, soon enough you'll be named Zombie leader.

changing your story now?

nice

Call me a UFC fanboy all you want, as long as you come off your ridiculous thoughts from the previous days. :2thumbs:

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

changing your story now?

nice

Call me a UFC fanboy all you want, as long as you come off your ridiculous thoughts from the previous days. :2thumbs:

Negative bro, not changing my story, but I cant state it to be fact, im not ignorant in that regard.

Either I accept that this shit goes on or I stop watching the sport all together, so its just best I dont let probably a small percentage of fights ruin the whole sport for me. Shit happens in all sports.. its just reality we have to live with. Ive thought it and turned my head to it in the past as it relates to MMA, but I do truly believe that there is some corruption that takes place.

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

1. I think the Cyborg fight went on too long. I think 2-3 x she was just hunched over doing absolutely nothing while getting wailed on.
Unlike the Lesnar situation it wasnt surviving that barrage. She was getting routinely brought down then pummeled stood up ,put down pummeled. It was like watching the Karate Kid 3.


2. Big John spoke out on inside MMA saying he and Dana had some "respectful" disagreements , he had issues with some of the refs that were allowed in , basically he renounced doing UFC events after that.

 

[Liquidrob]

There is some shady stuff in all promotions, to say the UFC doesnt have any is just stupid, I have no issue with not stopping it, it was the right call, but that gets stopped 90% of the time, the refs know who is fighting and whats at stake

Just like Kimbo vs Thompson, that fight gets stopped 99% of the time, but it was Kimbo, its a main event, shit happens, I'm glad it didnt though, I'm old school and fighters should get a chance to win

I don't think its Dana telling a ref what to do, he isnt stupid, but there is stuff going on and the message gets sent one way or another