Manning vs brady: Revisited

[OnlyOneBeerLeft]

Was just arguing with a Patriots fan about this. Where do you stand? Brady went down and Cassel still had a winning season. And we all see how Cassel is doing elsewhere. Manning goes down and the Colts will be lucky to win a game this season. So is Brady a great QB playing in a better system? Is Manning an extraordinary QB playing in a mediocre/good system? What's the verdict?

 

[NAHSTE]

Possibly the most retarded way to compare these two.

 

[killgod]

All you've proven is Cassel is a mid tier QB who played for a really good team.

 

[steeljake]

Possibly the most retarded way to compare these two.

consider the source...

 

[dave]

Cassel was in the system and an OK QB, Collins was airlifted in.

Frankly, I think every team could learn from the Eagles on how to get a backup ready. Maybe I'm being a homer, but I have no worries if Kafka starts against the Giants this weekend. The Birds always coach up their backups. Garcia, Feeley, Kolb, Vick, Kafka etc...

The biggest problem in Indy is they didn't even remotely try to coach up a backup, always bringing in Joe The Plumber to be Manning's backup. They could have invested a 3rd or 4th round pick in a backup, but always just kept Sorgi or Painter around.

Eagles at least try to develop a decent backup QB. If nothing else, you get assets (see Kevin Kolb).

 

[NAHSTE]

The biggest problem in Indy is they didn't even remotely try to coach up a backup, always bringing in Joe The Plumber to be Manning's backup. They could have invested a 3rd or 4th round pick in a backup, but always just kept Sorgi or Painter around.

Eagles at least try to develop a decent backup QB. If nothing else, you get assets (see Kevin Kolb).

:bizzaro:

 

[Deviant]

Cassel was in the system and an OK QB, Collins was airlifted in.

Frankly, I think every team could learn from the Eagles on how to get a backup ready. Maybe I'm being a homer, but I have no worries if Kafka starts against the Giants this weekend. The Birds always coach up their backups. Garcia, Feeley, Kolb, Vick, Kafka etc...

The biggest problem in Indy is they didn't even remotely try to coach up a backup, always bringing in Joe The Plumber to be Manning's backup. They could have invested a 3rd or 4th round pick in a backup, but always just kept Sorgi or Painter around.

Eagles at least try to develop a decent backup QB. If nothing else, you get assets (see Kevin Kolb).

Fuck you. You watch your mouth. Curtis Painter shouldn't even be in the same sentence as. Jim Sorgi. Sorgi at least had a pulse when he came on the field. Hell, he was actually effective whenever he played. 63% completions, 6 TD, only 1 INT. Curtis Painter just fucking blows dick. If you think Sorgi and a guy with a career 28% completion percentage are the same...

Just fuck Curtis Painter.

 

[dave]

Fuck you. You watch your mouth. Curtis Painter shouldn't even be in the same sentence as. Jim Sorgi. Sorgi at least had a pulse when he came on the field. Hell, he was actually effective whenever he played. 63% completions, 6 TD, only 1 INT. Curtis Painter just fucking blows dick. If you think Sorgi and a guy with a career 28% completion percentage are the same...

Just fuck Curtis Painter.

Sorgi was a career backup with no chance of ever being a starter or getting the Colts a future draft pick.

The Colts have always mailed in the #2 spot on the depth chart and are finally paying for it.

OK, Sorgi is better than Painter, but who cares? If he were the starter right now, he wouldn't be better than Collins is right now.

The Colts should have been serious about the #2 spot on the depth chart a long, long time ago. Manning's health was never a sure thing. And, again, they didn't need to spend a 1 or 2 on a backup. A late 3 or 4 with coaching up might have gotten them out of this mess.

 

[Houston]

So is Brady a great QB playing in a better system? Is Manning an extraordinary QB playing in a mediocre/good system? What's the verdict?

Verdict o_0? You just answered it yourself.



Brady is a great QB playing in a better system, and Manning is a extraordinary QB playing in a mediocre/good system.

 

[OnlyOneBeerLeft]

Verdict o_0? You just answered it yourself.



Brady is a great QB playing in a better system, and Manning is a extraordinary QB playing in a mediocre/good system.

That's what I was thinking. Colts still have been winning all these years with Manning and now they won't. The Patriots won and then still had a very good year without Brady. If Brady went down again they would still be a contender, the system works. Manning seems to do it almost alone at times.

 

[Senser81]

Cassel was in the system and an OK QB, Collins was airlifted in.

Not really the issue. Cassel was inheriting a 16-0 team that was arguably the greatest offense in history. Collins was inheriting a team past its prime whose main weapons last year were Austin Collie and some guy named "White".

 

[Saluki]

Cassel was in the system and an OK QB, Collins was airlifted in.

Frankly, I think every team could learn from the Eagles on how to get a backup ready. Maybe I'm being a homer, but I have no worries if Kafka starts against the Giants this weekend. The Birds always coach up their backups. Garcia, Feeley, Kolb, Vick, Kafka etc...

The biggest problem in Indy is they didn't even remotely try to coach up a backup, always bringing in Joe The Plumber to be Manning's backup. They could have invested a 3rd or 4th round pick in a backup, but always just kept Sorgi or Painter around.

Eagles at least try to develop a decent backup QB. If nothing else, you get assets (see Kevin Kolb).

Who was Matt Cassell Before that season? He was fucking jim sorgi

 

[nflman2033]

Cassel was in the system and an OK QB, Collins was airlifted in.

Frankly, I think every team could learn from the Eagles on how to get a backup ready. Maybe I'm being a homer, but I have no worries if Kafka starts against the Giants this weekend. The Birds always coach up their backups. Garcia, Feeley, Kolb, Vick, Kafka etc...

The biggest problem in Indy is they didn't even remotely try to coach up a backup, always bringing in Joe The Plumber to be Manning's backup. They could have invested a 3rd or 4th round pick in a backup, but always just kept Sorgi or Painter around.

Eagles at least try to develop a decent backup QB. If nothing else, you get assets (see Kevin Kolb).

Maybe???????

 

[Len B]

What a dumb fucking argument, OOBL. I won't say Brady is better than Manning, but this argument isn't the way to settle things.

The 2008 Patriots' squad was essentially the same team as the 16-0, Super Bowl bound 2007 Patriots team yet they ended up at 11-5 and missing playoffs, minus Asante Samuel.

Why were they 11-5? Because they played the NFC West, which was a guaranteed four victories when you consider the only tough team (Arizona) had to come into New England in December and play in a blizzard, which saw the Patriots winning 47-7 in a game that doesn't even count.

The 2008 team was 7-5 before their wonderful creampuff ending of Seattle, Oakland, Arizona (blizzard) and Buffalo. They lost four games to playoff contenders.

The Patriots were lucky they got to play 2-4 KC, 5-11 Oakland, 8-8 Denver, 7-9 Buffalo twice, 2-14 St. Louis, 4-12 Seattle, 7-9 San Fran, and 8-8 Arizona in blizzard conditions. That is eight guaranteed wins considering the talent that was on the team.

If that same squad had to play the 2007 schedule vs. the dominant NFC East (where 8-8 was the WORST record in the division, let alone the division winner like the NFC West was) and an AFC North division they would've been lucky to go 8-8.

I won't even get into the fact that Cassel had been with New England learning the system for 3+ years under the best QB/coach in the game whereas Collins is half in the bag every game and showed up a week before the season.

All your argument says is that the 2008 Patriots', as a whole, were better than the 2011 Colts. Considering the 2007 Patriots' went undefeated and the 2011 Colts had already been predicted to lose the division to the Texans before Peyton went down, that's not something that is hard to predict.

And as for this system BS, Cassel was practically a pro bowl QB last year on an awful Kansas City team with the same creampuff schedule he had in New England. He's not THAT bad of a quarterback against easy competition.

 

[OnlyOneBeerLeft]

What a dumb fucking argument, OOBL. I won't say Brady is better than Manning, but this argument isn't the way to settle things.

The 2008 Patriots' squad was essentially the same team as the 16-0, Super Bowl bound 2007 Patriots team yet they ended up at 11-5 and missing playoffs, minus Asante Samuel.

Why were they 11-5? Because they played the NFC West, which was a guaranteed four victories when you consider the only tough team (Arizona) had to come into New England in December and play in a blizzard, which saw the Patriots winning 47-7 in a game that doesn't even count.

The 2008 team was 7-5 before their wonderful creampuff ending of Seattle, Oakland, Arizona (blizzard) and Buffalo. They lost four games to playoff contenders.

The Patriots were lucky they got to play 2-4 KC, 5-11 Oakland, 8-8 Denver, 7-9 Buffalo twice, 2-14 St. Louis, 4-12 Seattle, 7-9 San Fran, and 8-8 Arizona in blizzard conditions. That is eight guaranteed wins considering the talent that was on the team.

If that same squad had to play the 2007 schedule vs. the dominant NFC East (where 8-8 was the WORST record in the division, let alone the division winner like the NFC West was) and an AFC North division they would've been lucky to go 8-8.

I won't even get into the fact that Cassel had been with New England learning the system for 3+ years under the best QB/coach in the game whereas Collins is half in the bag every game and showed up a week before the season.

All your argument says is that the 2008 Patriots', as a whole, were better than the 2011 Colts. Considering the 2007 Patriots' went undefeated and the 2011 Colts had already been predicted to lose the division to the Texans before Peyton went down, that's not something that is hard to predict.

And as for this system BS, Cassel was practically a pro bowl QB last year on an awful Kansas City team with the same creampuff schedule he had in New England. He's not THAT bad of a quarterback against easy competition.

those are all good points, and agree with most. I think Brady is a great QB, he runs it to perfection. But I think just about every person here will agree that Brady has had the better coaching staff and much better team as a whole. For Manning to still do what he has year in and year out with the few pieces to work with is incredible.

I guess the more legitimate question... If Peyton was on the Patriots with that team and Brady was on the Colts with what they have had... who would be more successful? Peyton would prob have 4-6 rings. But again that's just speculation by one person, but I'm sure some other people can agree.