Memphis will not offer Hollins contract extension

[JimLeavy59]

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

George Karl fired, Lionel Hollins just leaves.

Weird off-season out in the West.

I guess I can understand Karl, he just doesn't do shit in the playoffs and Denver wants to take that next step.

Memphis made mid-season front office moves, traded their "best" (I'm using that very loosely, as I think Gasol/Conley are better players, but I am sure tons of people thought Gay was their best player) player and made it to the WCF...I think it was a good coaching job by Hollins...surprised he didn't get an extension...I think they are close to making the finals...just need an extra piece.

 

[Herm]

George Karl fired, Lionel Hollins just leaves.

Weird off-season out in the West.

I guess I can understand Karl, he just doesn't do shit in the playoffs and Denver wants to take that next step.

Memphis made mid-season front office moves, traded their "best" (I'm using that very loosely, as I think Gasol/Conley are better players, but I am sure tons of people thought Gay was their best player) player and made it to the WCF...I think it was a good coaching job by Hollins...surprised he didn't get an extension...I think they are close to making the finals...just need an extra piece.

They traded Rudy Gay and Marreese Speights to avoid the luxury tax. Conley, Zbo, and Gasol eat up the majority of the cap between them 3 (almost 41M in 2013). It will be hard enough to resign Tony Allen let alone bring in another piece.

It sucks that Coach Hollins wont be back, i really liked him. You take a team to the WCF and then are told we no longer require your services? Classy move Memphis.

 

[dave]

They traded Rudy Gay and Marreese Speights to avoid the luxury tax. Conley, Zbo, and Gasol eat up the majority of the cap between them 3 (almost 41M in 2013). It will be hard enough to resign Tony Allen let alone bring in another piece.

It sucks that Coach Hollins wont be back, i really liked him. You take a team to the WCF and then are told we no longer require your services? Classy move Memphis.

As a Raptors' fan, I like Rudy Gay as a person. He seems like a good guy, but the Grizzlies were 100% correct getting rid of that contract. Gay is a good player, but incredibly inefficient. And even more inefficient when you factor in the salary cap number.

I agree with Grizzlies' fans, you likely lost your last playoff round because you didn't have Rudy Gay, but at best he would have made the loss 4 games to 3 at best.

Now my Raptors are stuck with that contract and a guy who thinks he's a franchise player.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

They traded Rudy Gay and Marreese Speights to avoid the luxury tax. Conley, Zbo, and Gasol eat up the majority of the cap between them 3 (almost 41M in 2013). It will be hard enough to resign Tony Allen let alone bring in another piece.

It sucks that Coach Hollins wont be back, i really liked him. You take a team to the WCF and then are told we no longer require your services? Classy move Memphis.

Gay is also a bit of a black hole...his value just doesn't equate to his contract...when Hollinger got say in the Memphis organization...shedding that contract was at the top of the list of to-do's...

 

[Herm]

As a Raptors' fan, I like Rudy Gay as a person. He seems like a good guy, but the Grizzlies were 100% correct getting rid of that contract. Gay is a good player, but incredibly inefficient. And even more inefficient when you factor in the salary cap number.

I agree with Grizzlies' fans, you likely lost your last playoff round because you didn't have Rudy Gay, but at best he would have made the loss 4 games to 3 at best.

Now my Raptors are stuck with that contract and a guy who thinks he's a franchise player.

Raps big 3 salary guys are younger with Bargs, DeRozan, and Gay but i'll take the Grizzlies Big 3 salary guys over them any day. I liked Rudy as a player and i dont think he wouldve made a difference in the San Antonio series. They were playing amazing basketball.

I am interested to see where the Hollinger off season takes the Grizzlies.


edit: it might be a wash since i thought Derozan was getting closer to max money for some reason. I looked and 9.5 a year isnt as bad for him.

 

[Xixak]

The Grizzlies' big 3 contract guys (Conley, Gasol, ZBo) are definitely better than the Raptors' (DeMar, Gay, Bargnani).

But Bargs is getting traded before July 1st according to Ujiri, and if he can't find a suitor they're amnestying him. I kinda like the Gay/DeRozan wing-tandem if Gay can re-discover his 3-ball and start hitting closer to 37% like he used to. DeRozan showed some proficiency with the corner 3 late last year, I'd like to see that improve as well.

Hollins is a great coach, but the reason Memphis wouldn't pay him is because he disagrees with the Moneyball/Advanced Stats tactics being used by Hollinger. They'll probably look to get a younger coach that buys into that philosophy.

 

[FedEx227]

It's not that he disagrees with it, it's that he's being resistant to the entire new management team. Going as far as to scream Hollinger off the court during a practice when he was trying to show one of the guys some shot charts. The ownership group clearly sees a value in advanced metrics, Hollins didn't. It's just an split up basically, neither side really hates each other I'd imagine.

 

[FedEx227]

They traded Rudy Gay and Marreese Speights to avoid the luxury tax. Conley, Zbo, and Gasol eat up the majority of the cap between them 3 (almost 41M in 2013). It will be hard enough to resign Tony Allen let alone bring in another piece.

It sucks that Coach Hollins wont be back, i really liked him. You take a team to the WCF and then are told we no longer require your services? Classy move Memphis.

Rudy Gay was also traded because he wasn't very good. It had luxury tax overtones but they were jumping for joy to kill two birds with one stone by sending him away.

 

[ralaw]

It's not that he disagrees with it, it's that he's being resistant to the entire new management team. Going as far as to scream Hollinger off the court during a practice when he was trying to show one of the guys some shot charts. The ownership group clearly sees a value in advanced metrics, Hollins didn't. It's just an split up basically, neither side really hates each other I'd imagine.

I don't really see why any coach wouldn't take kindly to advanced metrics. It only makes their job "easier" in that they know how to better use players and goes down to the root of a player's abilities. It also is the future of the league.

 

[JimLeavy59]

I don't really see why any coach wouldn't take kindly to advanced metrics. It on'y makes their job "easier" in that they know how to better use certain players and it is the future of the league.

Maybe he doesn't like people going behind his back?

 

[FedEx227]

I don't really see why any coach wouldn't take kindly to advanced metrics. It only makes their job "easier" in that they know how to better use players and goes down to the root of a player's abilities. It also is the future of the league.

Hey, your guess is as good as mine. Baseball managers have been resisting it openly for 20-30 years now.

 

[ralaw]

I think Hollins is a solid coach, but I don't put him on any sort of elite status.....I see him on the Byron Scott level when he had Kidd, Paul, etc.

 

[Xixak]

I don't really see why any coach wouldn't take kindly to advanced metrics. It only makes their job "easier" in that they know how to better use players and goes down to the root of a player's abilities. It also is the future of the league.

A lot of times GMs don't look at the full picture behind advanced metrics.

Yes Rudy Gay was somewhat inefficient, but now that he's gone you have 15-17 shots to redistribute a game. Marc Gasol, Z-Bo and Conley are all sub-50% shooters. If you increase their shooting volume (which you now have to with Gay gone), their efficiency only decreases. You also can't just give those shots to Tayshaun Prince because he will perform horribly.

This is why Conley only shot 38% from the field in the playoffs and Gasol dropped from 49 to 45% (which is not good at all for a center). You can't just take away a moderately inefficient player and expect your team's efficiency to go up... not many players can shoot over 40% on 17 shots a game. It's like saying taking Iverson off Philly would've made them better. Are you now gonna ask Aaron McKie to put up 20 shots a game?


Advanced Metrics make way more sense in baseball because it's more about the individual and not really how the individual's stats fit into a team concept. You try to play moneyball in the NBA and you're gonna get burned. The Grizzlies imo would've lost in round 1 if not for Blake's injury, and I doubt they would've beaten OKC with Westbrook (even Houston almost beat them with RW out).

 

[NAHSTE]

A lot of times GMs don't look at the full picture behind advanced metrics.

Oh but you do right?

:tellmemore:

LOL at asserting GM's aren't looking at "the full picture" ... they have more information than we do, and always will.

 

[FedEx227]

A lot of times GMs don't look at the full picture behind advanced metrics.

Yes Rudy Gay was somewhat inefficient, but now that he's gone you have 15-17 shots to redistribute a game. Marc Gasol, Z-Bo and Conley are all sub-50% shooters. If you increase their shooting volume (which you now have to with Gay gone), their efficiency only decreases. You also can't just give those shots to Tayshaun Prince because he will perform horribly.

This is why Conley only shot 38% from the field in the playoffs and Gasol dropped from 49 to 45% (which is not good at all for a center). You can't just take away a moderately inefficient player and expect your team's efficiency to go up... not many players can shoot over 40% on 17 shots a game. It's like saying taking Iverson off Philly would've made them better. Are you now gonna ask Aaron McKie to put up 20 shots a game?


Advanced Metrics make way more sense in baseball because it's more about the individual and not really how the individual's stats fit into a team concept. You try to play moneyball in the NBA and you're gonna get burned. The Grizzlies imo would've lost in round 1 if not for Blake's injury, and I doubt they would've beaten OKC with Westbrook (even Houston almost beat them with RW out).

Moneyball =/= advanced metrics.

Advanced metrics work just as well in basketball. They just aren't easily consumable. They aren't as simple as PER, +/- as we see. It doesn't come in nice round numbers to tell us if Player A is better than Player B. Instead it's more about spots on the floor, shot charts, defensive placement, lineups, etc. It's more of "Rudy Gay shoots 34% on corner threes" vs. "Rudy Gay has a 16 PER!"