More UFC HW Title history

[Liquidrob]

From a post by Helwig on the UG

Cain in fact posseses the FIFTH version of the UFC HW title.

This title is one that was made following the motorcycle accident of Frank Mir. Afterwards, the man Mir had just defeated for the belt in Tim Sylvia, faced the #1 contender in Andrei Arlovski, to fight for the injured Mir's title.

Mir's title(the 4th version) was won from Sylvia, who himself got it off of Ricco Rodriguez.

Ricco got it not by beating the HW champion, but by beating the former HW champion in Randy Couture.

Barnett had beaten Randy for the belt(3rd version) but tested positive for steroids. So while blackballed and stripped of the belt, the results were not overurned and declared a NC. Barnett left and retained the UFC HW title victory.

That title that left with Barnett had a decent shelf life going back to Randleman vs Williams. Neither was the champ at the time but Bas Rutten had won and then immediately retired with the belt(2nd version) So they had to create a new belt to continue with.

The original title was removed when Randy left as the UFC HW champ in 1997 and then started losing in Japan. It linearly is passed almost exclusively through the hands of the best fighters and #1 ranked champions until it presently winds up with Werdum

In summary:

1st UFC HW title: Coleman-Smith-Couture-Inoue-Kerr-Fujita-Coleman-Nog-Fedor-Werdum

2nd UFC HW title: New tournament pits Rutten against Randleman. Rutten wins and immediately retires. Defends one time, 8 years later against Warpath.

3rd UFC HW title: New tournament pits Pete Williams against Randleman. Randleman wins. Couture comes back as the last man to hold the original UFC title in the UFC(to this very day) and takes it. Couture eventually loses to Barnett. But Barnett tests positive and leaves the UFC, with he belt.

4th UFC HW title: Former champ Couture fights Ricco Rodriguez. Ricco wins. Tim Sylvia takes out Ricco. Mir takes out Tim Sylvia. Mir is then in a horrendous auto accident and cannot fight indefinitely so he is stripped of the belt.

5th UFC HW title: Former champion Sylvia fights Arlovski for the new belt. Arlovski wins. Sylvia wins it back. Couture comes back yet again as the last man to ever hold the original UFC HW title in the UFC(to this day) and wins. Couture loses to Lesnar. Lesnar loses to Cain.

Thats where we are now.

 

[Liquidrob]

poster whistleblower adds on

Well, if you want to start off with each version of a UFC HW title, and then follow where that individual "champion's" lineage ultimately led to:

The original (and most legitimately established) HW Championship from Severn-Coleman - which was the single most definitive HW Championship in NHB at the time - ends up with Werdum today.

The next version of a HW title in the UFC officially went to Bas, who retired.

The next version then went to Randleman, who next loses to Randy.

Randy, however, as the reigning UFC HW champion, next loses to Valentijn Overeem in RINGS. (Exactly like how Randy, as the reigning UFC HW Champion and the Linear HW Champion of MMA at that point, went over to Japan and lost that lineage to Enson previously - by quick and easy submission, much like against Valentijn.)

And that lineage from that 3rd version of the UFC HW title effectively ends up with Werdum as well - as right after Valentijn submitted Randy, Valentijn was submitted later that same night by Nog in the finals - and we are then back to the originally defining Championship lineage anyway, passing from Nog to Fedor to now Werdum.

Then Randy comes back to the UFC as still the officially reigning UFC HW titleholder (even though he had just lost outside the UFC yet again, to Valentijn), and next officially loses the title to Barnett - who, as HELWIG pointed out, next loses to Cro Cop, who next loses to Fedor - and we are right back to Werdum once again.

So Werdum holds 3 different UFC HW title lineages, one from the original (and most definitive) Championship from Coleman-Severn - which was the most legitimate (and historically well-founded) one ever - as well as from the title then originated by Randleman-Williams (when the titleholder from that lineage, Randy, subsequently lost it to Valentijn), and the lineage from Randy-Barnett as well.

But ultimately, the one that really matters would be the original UFC and Linear Championship stemming from Coleman-Severn - which would be the equivalent of The Ring Magazine HW Championship for MMA today - held by Werdum.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I agree with whistleblower. The original lineage (lost by Randy in Japan to Enson) is the one that should be "counted" for the linear world's championship. The rest of these lines (most of which end with Werdum anyway, thanks to Fedor beating everyone), are essentially meaningless in that regard, because these are just UFC promotional lines.

I should also note, that I take nothing away from promotional champions. These promotions don't (and shouldn't) care about world lineage, they just need to be concerned with their own promotional lineage. Cain is a deserving UFC Heavyweight Champion, but the UFC's claim to the "real" World's champion ended when Randy left and lost to Enson.

The winner of the Strikeforce Grand Prix not only takes over the "real" World's Champion lineage, but also at least a half dozen other lines that we talkied about in the other thread. To me, once your "line" is absorbed by the "real" lineage, subsequent lines created by that promotion are simply promotional lines. UFC was absorbed a long time ago, and now Strikeforce, DREAM, EliteXC, and all of the others we figured out will be "absorbed" by the Grand Prix.

We should do this for all of the belts, it shouldnt be that hard because we had a thread for this when Meltzer had his takes in the Observer a few months back, so we at least have a starting point on all weights.