Senser81
VSN Poster of the Year
I got home last night and noticed a new Open Court on my DVR. I immediately got excited as it's one of my favorite shows. The subject matter seemed like it would be a good discussion. The entire show revolved around the premise of adding 10 more players to the 50 greatest players list from 1997. The show elected to not get into removing players from the 50 list but simply just adding guys they thought were the "next 10".
At the end of the hour here were the next 10 they came up with. These were "unanimous votes":
Tim Duncan
Kobe Bryant
Lebron James
Allen Iverson
Kevin Garnett
Dirk Nowitzki
Dominique Wilkins
Bob McAdoo
Dywane Wade
Kevin Durant
Random Thoughts on the show:
-Chauncey Billups made his first appearance as a panelist last night. He was pretty much worthless. The few times he was asked a direct question he didn't answer it. During the "debates" he was pretty much silent. He made me miss Grant Hill, Brent Barry, Steve Smith, and Steve Kerr.
-Isaiah Thomas, for as much as I hate him, has been pretty decent on these shows since he joined the panel a few episodes ago. His appearances on the show though usually follow his career arc in the NBA though. He'll start off with a brilliant thought, explain it well, and even if I don't agree with the conclusion I can respect the well thought well played response(early NBA career to NBA Championships). Then last night someone brought up Scottie Pippen(old wound) and Thomas turns into bitter sore losing dick head(late career). At the end his player evaluation/comparison between McAdoo and Durant is void of all thought(Coach/GM). Someone brought up putting Durant in the next 10 shouldn't be done because Durant didn't have rings. Barkley pointed out that when McAdoo was basically Durant earlier in his career in Buffalo that McAdoo wasn't winning anything and just racking up an MVP and scoring titles. The point Barkley was driving home was pretty clear, Thomas can't punish Durant for not winning rings as an elite scorer(to this point in his career as a 26 y/o) when McAdoo didn't either but then hold McAdoo rings as a 30 and 33 y/o coming off the bench for the Lakers over Durant's head. Thomas didn't understand this point and just kept pointing to his rings.
-Reggie Miller is always fantastic on these shows. He's animated and can joke around but he's always well thought and well spoken.
-Kenny Smith didn't get as much mic time as usual last night which is unfortunate. Smith, Barkley, and Miller usually drive these shows but Smith didn't really have a chance to get in much of a word last night and his good points were shouted over by a player to be named later.
-Chris Webber had another solid show. Webber is another guy where his performances here somewhat mirror his career or perception of his career. Ernie Johnson will ask Webber a direct question and he will rarely answer it. He'll ramble, and make a really good "point"(performance) but it won't be in context of answering the question and lead anywhere(Championship). Then when the show is running and gunning and free flowing Webber will jump in make some great points, be an incredibly valuable part of the panel (team), and make maybe some of the best points in the entire discussion. I'm not sure if you were starting a panel/franchise Webber would be a no brainer top pick but you're assured a very good panel/team with him on it.
-Shaquille O'Neal is the worst. Just terrible. The panel last night would have been immensely better without him on it. he's a guy that TNT has given too much air time too and thinks he's smarter/more important than he is. His campaign last night for the entire show consisted of trying to wedge Penny Hardaway(!!?!?!?) and Tracy McGrady on to the next 10 list over guys like Wade and Durant. It was infuriating.
Shaq: "You'd put Wade on this list over Penny?!"
Entire Panel: "Absolutely"
Shaq: "WHAT!?" *Rolls eyes/makes shit smelling face*
This went on for almost the entire show and he was just shouting over people. Towards the end Shaq turned into a pissy child with Kenny Smith.
For context at one point Chris Webber was on the list at 9th and the 10th spot was coming down to between Durant or Wade. Earlier in the show Smith had said championships matter quite a bit when trying to determine great player vs great player discussions. As the show was winding down Smith said that in all due respect to Webber that he'd have Wade locked in at 9th and his debate was between Durant and Webber. Shaq, not understanding that Kenny is taking Webber off the list because he's a moron who can't listen, cops an attitude with Smith saying "No, you can't go back on your word. How can you debate between Durant and Wade if you say rings matter?!" Smith tries to explain to him that his debate isn't Durant v Wade it's Durant v Webber because Wade is one of the best 2 guards in NBA history. Shaq refuses to comprehend the argument and tries to shout Kenny down to make a pick. It was really stupid and awkward.
Thankfully Reggie Miller saw the point Smith was making and fell on the sword of letting Webber know he was not voting for Webber anymore and instead changing his vote to Durant and Wade for the 9th and 10th spots. So Chris Webber fell off the list to #11. Which he seemed to be pretty fine with.
Shaq is terrible. I wish they'd remove him from these shows. He never provides insights, his jokes suck, he just comes off as a bitter idiot. Bitter pills brought up last night: Wade's ring with him, Dwight Howard, being left off the '92 Dream Team(Thomas took a shot at this too), Penny not making the list.
Too many parts of the show revolved around the rest of the panel having to try and shout over Shaq's idiocy.
-Chris Webber belongs in the HOF. You start looking at this list and other's and you could easily make the argument Webber was the 61st best player in NBA history.
-Other guys who were discussed but just missed the cut:
Chris Webber (Removed from list for Wade and Durant after being put on it)
Reggie Miller (Miller refused to vote for himself, but likely would have been bumped later for the likes of Durant and Wade. Very similar to the Webber situation)
Gary Payton
Jason Kidd
-Other guys that were mentioned but quickly dismissed
Steve Nash
Ray Allen
Tracy McGrady
Paul Pierce
Alex English
Dennis Johnson(!?)
Carmelo Anthony
Vince Carter
At the end of the hour here were the next 10 they came up with. These were "unanimous votes":
Tim Duncan
Kobe Bryant
Lebron James
Allen Iverson
Kevin Garnett
Dirk Nowitzki
Dominique Wilkins
Bob McAdoo
Dywane Wade
Kevin Durant
Random Thoughts on the show:
-Chauncey Billups made his first appearance as a panelist last night. He was pretty much worthless. The few times he was asked a direct question he didn't answer it. During the "debates" he was pretty much silent. He made me miss Grant Hill, Brent Barry, Steve Smith, and Steve Kerr.
-Isaiah Thomas, for as much as I hate him, has been pretty decent on these shows since he joined the panel a few episodes ago. His appearances on the show though usually follow his career arc in the NBA though. He'll start off with a brilliant thought, explain it well, and even if I don't agree with the conclusion I can respect the well thought well played response(early NBA career to NBA Championships). Then last night someone brought up Scottie Pippen(old wound) and Thomas turns into bitter sore losing dick head(late career). At the end his player evaluation/comparison between McAdoo and Durant is void of all thought(Coach/GM). Someone brought up putting Durant in the next 10 shouldn't be done because Durant didn't have rings. Barkley pointed out that when McAdoo was basically Durant earlier in his career in Buffalo that McAdoo wasn't winning anything and just racking up an MVP and scoring titles. The point Barkley was driving home was pretty clear, Thomas can't punish Durant for not winning rings as an elite scorer(to this point in his career as a 26 y/o) when McAdoo didn't either but then hold McAdoo rings as a 30 and 33 y/o coming off the bench for the Lakers over Durant's head. Thomas didn't understand this point and just kept pointing to his rings.
-Reggie Miller is always fantastic on these shows. He's animated and can joke around but he's always well thought and well spoken.
-Kenny Smith didn't get as much mic time as usual last night which is unfortunate. Smith, Barkley, and Miller usually drive these shows but Smith didn't really have a chance to get in much of a word last night and his good points were shouted over by a player to be named later.
-Chris Webber had another solid show. Webber is another guy where his performances here somewhat mirror his career or perception of his career. Ernie Johnson will ask Webber a direct question and he will rarely answer it. He'll ramble, and make a really good "point"(performance) but it won't be in context of answering the question and lead anywhere(Championship). Then when the show is running and gunning and free flowing Webber will jump in make some great points, be an incredibly valuable part of the panel (team), and make maybe some of the best points in the entire discussion. I'm not sure if you were starting a panel/franchise Webber would be a no brainer top pick but you're assured a very good panel/team with him on it.
-Shaquille O'Neal is the worst. Just terrible. The panel last night would have been immensely better without him on it. he's a guy that TNT has given too much air time too and thinks he's smarter/more important than he is. His campaign last night for the entire show consisted of trying to wedge Penny Hardaway(!!?!?!?) and Tracy McGrady on to the next 10 list over guys like Wade and Durant. It was infuriating.
Shaq: "You'd put Wade on this list over Penny?!"
Entire Panel: "Absolutely"
Shaq: "WHAT!?" *Rolls eyes/makes shit smelling face*
This went on for almost the entire show and he was just shouting over people. Towards the end Shaq turned into a pissy child with Kenny Smith.
For context at one point Chris Webber was on the list at 9th and the 10th spot was coming down to between Durant or Wade. Earlier in the show Smith had said championships matter quite a bit when trying to determine great player vs great player discussions. As the show was winding down Smith said that in all due respect to Webber that he'd have Wade locked in at 9th and his debate was between Durant and Webber. Shaq, not understanding that Kenny is taking Webber off the list because he's a moron who can't listen, cops an attitude with Smith saying "No, you can't go back on your word. How can you debate between Durant and Wade if you say rings matter?!" Smith tries to explain to him that his debate isn't Durant v Wade it's Durant v Webber because Wade is one of the best 2 guards in NBA history. Shaq refuses to comprehend the argument and tries to shout Kenny down to make a pick. It was really stupid and awkward.
Thankfully Reggie Miller saw the point Smith was making and fell on the sword of letting Webber know he was not voting for Webber anymore and instead changing his vote to Durant and Wade for the 9th and 10th spots. So Chris Webber fell off the list to #11. Which he seemed to be pretty fine with.
Shaq is terrible. I wish they'd remove him from these shows. He never provides insights, his jokes suck, he just comes off as a bitter idiot. Bitter pills brought up last night: Wade's ring with him, Dwight Howard, being left off the '92 Dream Team(Thomas took a shot at this too), Penny not making the list.
Too many parts of the show revolved around the rest of the panel having to try and shout over Shaq's idiocy.
-Chris Webber belongs in the HOF. You start looking at this list and other's and you could easily make the argument Webber was the 61st best player in NBA history.
-Other guys who were discussed but just missed the cut:
Chris Webber (Removed from list for Wade and Durant after being put on it)
Reggie Miller (Miller refused to vote for himself, but likely would have been bumped later for the likes of Durant and Wade. Very similar to the Webber situation)
Gary Payton
Jason Kidd
-Other guys that were mentioned but quickly dismissed
Steve Nash
Ray Allen
Tracy McGrady
Paul Pierce
Alex English
Dennis Johnson(!?)
Carmelo Anthony
Vince Carter
