Phoenix Coyotes or Winnipeg Jets?

[GoRedRocket]

Since Im new here, just trying to gauge your guy thoughts on the whole Coyotes situation. Who thinks that they will stay in the desert and who thinks that they are headed back to Canada?

I really want them to stay, but they owe the NHL $25 mil by tomorrow. I assume they will get an extension on that, but I dont have faith that they will stay.

 

[killgod]

i don't think any fan of the NHL (outside of the 5 in Phoenix) wants them to stay.

the NHL, much like other pro leagues are very socialist, so if one franchise is losing big money its a problem for everyone.

Since Winnipeg is the only NHL ready right now situation, clearly the Jets need to be playing hockey come October.

I get Bettman's obsession with the American cities over places like Winnipeg and Quebec, because those aren't big markets. The NHL is heavily supported by Toronto and Montreal, however they need to have as many strong American teams as they can because in situations like 2002, when the Canadian dollar was 62 cents American, it's a problem because the revenues from TOR/MTL aren't worth much in American dollars.

However, when a team is just losing huge money, you clearly have to fucking give it up.

 

[GoRedRocket]

I agree on the whole losing money thing. I also know the Marketing for the Coyotes has truly been non existent. 29th in League attendance is unacceptable for a Playoff team, but I do think where ever they move, will have a better turn out than what they have been getting.

 

[Ravin]

I think the team should move, I don't think it should be back to Winnipeg. But as pointed out, there is really no nhl ready city that can host a team unless you say to everyone, "the Yotes are moving, get your arena's ready and bid" and give them a single year to move. But that is just out-there thinking and not a legit thing.

So as it is, Winnipeg should get the team back and the NHL should really start thinking of where they want this shit to go. Some places just cannot handle NHL teams. Stop trying to force it. Atlanta is another example. Stop trying to force the team there. It does piss me off when a guy like Jim Blackberry guy tries to by teams and bring them to a competitive city, and flood the team with money, and the NHL says no to relocation, yet is now thinking of it. It makes no sense business wise. To me, more then looking at the money, they should be looking at that attendance stat and saying "hey can we actually turn this around and get people out to the games?" Answer is no, because even during the threat of being solid, and this being the final year for the team, the fans didn't even give it a good last ditch effort. Phoenix ranks 23rd in arena size in the NHL (give or take). They can put over 17,000 easily. So if the fans gave a damn about the team, they would be selling that thing out, or at the very least, a respectable showing. I'll give them some buys on nights with shitty teams, but if games with divisional rivals and big teams they are not sold out, it means it is time to move them.

It just seems like a lose-lose situation. The team isn't making money, so business wise, it sucks. AND fans don't care, so on the sports side of it, it sucks. And forcing it on to people is not doing anything. This is a playoff team. You have one of the better goalies in the league who is now, move or not move, going to FA because he doesn't give a fuck anymore. It is just an all around fucked situation.

And to even give Bettman some credit, what does it matter if 1 team fails. LA/SJ on the west coast are doing great. Tampa will be fine for years now. Dallas is always good. Nashville is turning it around now that they have a team to cheer for. Atlanta and Florida are meh as well. So out of all the souther US teams, 1, maybe 2 might be a fail. To me, that isn't bad at all. You did establish Souther hockey. So move those other teams on to new places and then try again later if you want.

There is so many ways to look at this, you could go blue in the face. I think everyone can agree though, we are just sick of listening to it. Make a choice and live with it. This back and forth shit has got to end. Either move them, or keep them there.

 

[killgod]

Glendale pays the NHL 25 Million

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=364482

 

[leaffan]

Well the league took the money and now there is literally nothing for next year if the league plans on keeping the coyotes in phoenix next season.

Either a buyer who would be interested in literally losing money forever there has to be found or the league is going to need to foot some serious bills next year.

You would think the smart decision would be to just sell the team to an owner who would then move it to wherever but good ol bettman won't back down.

 

[NAHSTE]

Canada can have Atlanta's team. As a native of Atlanta I just want to see them find a good home.

We don't care about them and never will. The players deserve better. Hockey fans in other cities without teams deserve better.

 

[Apocalypse]

I'm sorry but I'll be pissed if the 'Yotes are still in Phoenix next year lol.

 

[killgod]

Braves are currently 13th in attendance with a 29K average.

In baseball terms, because you play 2342364892364892 games a year, that's not too bad.

 

[leaffan]

This probably doesn't help:

1999–2000 1999–2000 82 14 57 7 4 39 170 313 1422 5th, Southeast Did not qualify
2000–01 2000–01 82 23 45 12 2 60 211 289 1500 4th, Southeast Did not qualify
2001–02 2001–02 82 19 47 11 5 54 187 288 1290 5th, Southeast Did not qualify
2002–03 2002–03 82 31 39 7 5 74 226 284 1253 3rd, Southeast Did not qualify
2003–04 2003–04 82 33 37 8 4 78 214 243 1505 2nd, Southeast Did not qualify
2004–051 2004–051 — — — — — — — — — — —
2005–06² 2005–06² 82 41 33 — 8 90 281 275 1344 3rd, Southeast Did not qualify
2006–07 2006–07 82 43 28 — 11 97 246 245 1097 1st, Southeast Lost Conference Quarterfinals, 0–4 (Rangers)
2007–08 2007–08 82 34 40 — 8 76 216 272 1077 4th, Southeast Did not qualify
2008–09 2008–09 82 35 41 — 6 76 257 280 1244 4th, Southeast Did not qualify
2009–10 2009–10 82 35 34 — 13 83 234 256 1045 2nd, Southeast Did not qualify

And these players not wanting to stay probably doesn't help:

Iiya Kovalchuk
Marian Hossa
Marc Savard
Dany Heatley

On the flip side their core of young players right now are looking to be really good.

Little, Cormier, Kane, Wheeler (he did play well for them after the trade), Burmistrov, Bogosian, pavelec, klingberg, byfuglien and enstrom ect are looking to be a solid team once they start gelling. They're late season collapse was rediculous though.

 

[NAHSTE]

If you want to get frank about it, Atlanta cannot handle anything other than football. Have you seen the Braves attendance through the week? We have more empty seats than Fenway even has seats. Weekends are decent but there is no demand because of how big a stadium we have and part of it as we were the first city to get pretty much anything in the southeast and as time went on and teams were added to the southeast they cut into our fan base but outside of NCAA football and NFL, we are not a sports region. Our football teams could play 5 days a week and attract 5 crowds bigger than 70k seats.....yet we can't pack 55k into Turner. Not really an issue of just hockey.

The Falcons were worse attendance wise until Blank became the owner really. They consistently fell in the bottom 10 for capacity and total attendance. As for the Braves attendance, it's horrible (and embarrassing) some nights but it's still packing 35-45k for a marquee series. The Cardinals finale had 36k, which is not Yankees/Phillies territory but certainly nothing to sneeze at either.

I don't think you can make the leap that they can't "handle" the team because the fan base is huge, sprawled out throughout the metro area and parts of Tennessee/Alabama/etc. The local fans are apathetic at times but they will go to a game if given reason. I'm sure the TV ratings and revenues are still very healthy due to the foothold the team has in the southeast.

I'm not proud of the attendance either but it's a huge leap to say the city can't/won't support baseball. Guarantee you the Braves are still the most loved/followed sports team in Atlanta. You can't compare attendance directly between the two sports because 8 conveniently scheduled home games are easier to draw for than 81, some of which are played at goofy times like Monday or Thursday afternoons, and/or in sweltering heat. The Falcons were lucky to get 70k in the Dome before Vick got there, and the year he was hurt was atrocious attendance wise. I still remember myself and 40k of my closest friends sitting through the Doug Johnson/Kurt Kittner season, so let's not pretend like the city has always been rabid for the Falcons.

I think that Atlantans like their individual college football team first, Braves baseball second and the Falcons third. Hawks are fairweather and the Thrashers are no weather. Even when the team was fighting for a playoff spot in February and March there were barely any people in the stands.

Which brings me back to my point... Get that team out of Atlanta, we don't deserve them.

 

[PP]

This probably doesn't help:

1999–2000 1999–2000 82 14 57 7 4 39 170 313 1422 5th, Southeast Did not qualify
2000–01 2000–01 82 23 45 12 2 60 211 289 1500 4th, Southeast Did not qualify
2001–02 2001–02 82 19 47 11 5 54 187 288 1290 5th, Southeast Did not qualify
2002–03 2002–03 82 31 39 7 5 74 226 284 1253 3rd, Southeast Did not qualify
2003–04 2003–04 82 33 37 8 4 78 214 243 1505 2nd, Southeast Did not qualify
2004–051 2004–051 — — — — — — — — — — —
2005–06² 2005–06² 82 41 33 — 8 90 281 275 1344 3rd, Southeast Did not qualify
2006–07 2006–07 82 43 28 — 11 97 246 245 1097 1st, Southeast Lost Conference Quarterfinals, 0–4 (Rangers)
2007–08 2007–08 82 34 40 — 8 76 216 272 1077 4th, Southeast Did not qualify
2008–09 2008–09 82 35 41 — 6 76 257 280 1244 4th, Southeast Did not qualify
2009–10 2009–10 82 35 34 — 13 83 234 256 1045 2nd, Southeast Did not qualify

And these players not wanting to stay probably doesn't help:

Iiya Kovalchuk
Marian Hossa
Marc Savard
Dany Heatley

On the flip side their core of young players right now are looking to be really good.

Little, Cormier, Kane, Wheeler (he did play well for them after the trade), Burmistrov, Bogosian, pavelec, klingberg, byfuglien and enstrom ect are looking to be a solid team once they start gelling. They're late season collapse was rediculous though.

I love me some Blake Wheeler. I want him back!

 

[Sharkweather]

I think that Atlantans like their individual college football team first, Braves baseball second and the Falcons third.

This is spot on, and applies to me as well.

 

[leaffan]

Glendale city council approved another $25 million to keep the hockey team in glendale for next year.

If I lived in that city I'd probably be up in arms if my government had put 75 mil into a hockey team that makes no money.