The "cheese" knowledge base

[MmmmBeeeeer]

Just thought we could get a healthy discussion on what VSNers consider cheese/unfair play. I know that without Madden 10 we can't talk about what newfangled cheese tactics we may come across (ala direct wr snap in Madden 09), but we could get a discussion on practices that are frowned upon concerning general gameplay. I have my own thoughts on this subject, but I'll save them for later on in this thread.

VSN's No Cheese Brocode Handbook Volume 1

Precursor: This is a guide intended for newcomers to VSN and non-lobby Madden gaming. There are generally accepted rules that we follow as to try and make the gameplay as realistic as possible with what we have. Nothing in this guide is very hard to understand, and a quick browsing over will give you an idea of what we strive for.


Section 1: Glitches

1a. No VSNer shall take advantage of any glitch that may come up in Madden 10. No exceptions, no excuses.

1b. *If* in Madden 10, no rocket catching. Ever. Ever ever. If you want to rocket catch, go play KorNStaRr.

Section 2: Offensive Gameplay

2a. Do not run the same play over, and over and over. This doesn't mean you can only run the HB Dive twice in a game, this is specific to money plays, running the same route play after play etc. Common sense.

2b. Do not snap the ball and immediately run to the sideline with the QB. Designed rollouts are acceptable however. This may not be an issue in Madden 10 however with the new QB drop back animations limiting this.

2c. Do not audible down a WR to the TE position

2d. Excessive audibling is frowned upon and not necessary. This is referring to audibling every single time.

2e. Do not put players in positions that they would not normally play.

2f. Its okay to punt the ball. Do not go for it on 4th down on your side of the field unless it is a make or break situation.

Section 3: Defense

In progress...

4.

 

[1ke]

If you snap the ball, and immediately hold the RT to start sprinting anywhere...you fail

 

[MRN]

Let's not, before another person goes down in a gang raping.

 

[MmmmBeeeeer]

Let's not, before another person goes down in a gang raping.

GaNG RapInG???

 

[Saluki]

Well "Cheese" is relative to the style you are playing, if your playing a freestyle game the only cheese is using a glitch, in a sim game cheese consists of

1) Glitches
2) Taking advantge over and over of a know exploit in the game (I.E make it rain catch, repetitive RC)
3) Genreally playing the game in a way NFL teams or player would not play the game on sundays (I.E. Hiking and sprinting to the sidlines every play, snapping the ball while the WR is in front of the FB for an extra blocker, a position where he would be trampled in a real game, ect.)

That's just my opinion.

 

[MmmmBeeeeer]

Good start fellas, I'm going to try and summarize all your responses in to a set of general guidelines. I don't see anything wrong with having a list of unnacceptable practices :dunno:

 

[Chadman]

X champ.

 

[Joey P]

Excessive audibling.

 

[Macken]

audibling down so ur WR is at TE

Direct snap over and over

any known glitch

same defense over and over

 

[Len B]

"Cheese" to me:

-Auto sprinting to the sideline with your QB. Note to all you dumbfucks who inside blitz and then cry cheese when the QB rolls out after the pocket collapses: That is not roll out cheese, it's adjusting to the defense
-Going for it on 4th down on your side of the field
-Playing players at positions they shouldn't be playing at
-Running the same play over and over again

 

[TimsGiants]

09 qb rolling sideline passing- sprinting to the side of the field where your tackle has pinned the end
09 cpu running- hiking the ball and letting the cpu run the rock man hate that bs want to bitchslap the opponent.

 

[MmmmBeeeeer]

Good stuff fellas, what about looping DE's? Unnacceptable? Can guys play as a DE as long as they aren't looping them around, or do you frown upon it totally?

 

[MmmmBeeeeer]

I control dlineman sometimes. How can anyone say that controlling a certain player is cheese?

I think its more the looping of defensive ends around the lineman, which was easy as hell to do in Madden 09

 

[July 4 1776]

Singleback formations don't have a FB to block correct. There are tons of other running plays that basicly use the FB as a decoy. So why not use a RB that has speed. I am a Dolphins fan and dream about having Ricky Williams and Ronnie Brown on the field at the same time. Defenses would have a hard time deciding which of those backs to watch because both are lethal in the open field.

And you would lose your blocker for one of the players, If you think Ricky or Ronnie can block as good as a FB you are sadly mistaken. Defenses would have trouble knowing which to block for, but not getting to either one

 

[Archer]

You are absolutely right however lets look at it from the opposite side. FB's are barely used in the offensive scheme accept to block. Now I would perfer to have another offensive threat. Someone that must be watched or pay the price. Put two dangerous HB's in the backfield and there would be 1 less person rushing because they couldn't afford to have that HB reach open field. And in almost all cases it would be a LB's job to contain that HB. Lets look at Philly. Westbrooks is one of the most dangerous RB's in the game because of his ability to come out of the backfield and catch passes. Now think about having 2 that would be a dream come true. The difference between a FB and a RB isn't the size but the speed. Vikings would be another team that could take advantage of a two HB backfield. Peterson and Taylor or Harvin = damn that's nasty.

lol ... somebody plays way too much madden to think this shit would work that well IRL . First of all AP flourished at first when he had Tony Richardson blocking in front

Tony Richardson , the guy who makes Runningbacks into Pro Bowlers with his blockling . I would LOVE to see Chester Taylor lead blocking every down for AP . Im sure AP wouldnt though , his YPC would shrink by a decent amount .

Its only "scary" when you can run a fb dive that is a guarnteed 5 yards on Madden . And while we are on Philly , Westbrook gets hurt enough as it is , imagine having him at full back , he would last about 3 games a season . Some teams dont use full backs but most of the teams struggle to run alot . Indy is one team that doesnt use alot of FB sets but thats because every run play is normally a strech and is only used to set up the play action . If Indy wanted to be a pound the ball team like the Titans , Vikes and so on they would need to find a FB quick .

If anything you would want your biggest Runningback at full back not the fastest . Putting your fastest runningback at fb is pure madden garbage that would fail IRL . Sure he would pick up a couple of cheap passing yards but NOBODY would respect your run game at all . And I hope to god you have a good oline if the FB is a runningback , otherwise the qb is going down all day long . I could only see it working at a team like the Pats who spread it out and have a qb who can release the ball super quick

 

[FlawLeSs]

cheese to me is simple

anything you dont see on sundays

 

[Saluki]

Good stuff fellas, what about looping DE's? Unnacceptable? Can guys play as a DE as long as they aren't looping them around, or do you frown upon it totally?

Since no one else really gave any incite....

This is something that depends on the AI, the CPU AI just couldn't sdjust to a looping DE in 09, in '10 it's supposed to be fixed but we don't know because we haven't played it. Thats one you'll have to wait and see on.

 

[Archer]

I think you are misunderstanding what I said. I don't mean to have my RB's go mashing into LB's or DL every play. But instead have the defense adjust to having two RB's on the field. Westbrooks is injury prone but that isn't from him blocking. There has been plenty of quick running backs in the game that didn't get injuried. I think what you are saying is hey if it doesn't make since then don't try it. Well that is why you do give it a shot. The Dolphins brought out the wildcat last year now there are several teams in the league loading up their rosters to run that kind of offense.

I will also disagree with you on the Peterson flourshing because of a full back. Let's both of us be honest. All he needs is to get to the outside and you don't need a FB for him to do that. Just someone willing to bump defenders off their route to him(Hines Ward comes to mind). A blown blocking assignment is just that. Tony Richardson is someone that doesn't miss his man however if that lineman does lock up his defender then that FB lead blocking doesn't mean anything.

And not 1 time did I say anything about putting my quickest RB at the FB position. I am not sure where that is coming from. And about the madden comment. I don't get ideals from playing a game. I study sports(well basketball,football) like it was my job. If it wasn't for ideals like what I am talking about you would still be watching people play in leather helmets and everyone squaring up in the 4 point stance.

AP can and has done well without Richardson but is it no coincedence that nearly every Runningback who has had Richardson at FB has made the pro bowl? I dont think so at all . If the FB gets pancaked then thats the run play blow up 9/10 . Taylor would get pancaked quite often at full back I would imagine which would kill the run

I thought you said fastest Runningback at Full back , if you didnt then my bad.

And I said Westbrook is injury prone as it is .... imagine putting at full back where he is getting pancaked and squashed every run play . He would last 2-3 games max out there. The Wildcat is nothing like putting a runningback at full back , for a start the wildcard is spread out with the o-line quit often over-loaded at one side , like when the Fins move Long over to provide an overload on one side for run plays . You arent asking Ricky Williams to go out there and lead block in the wildcat , most of the time hes either running the ball , faking a hand off or running a route . In the Wildcat there is nobody from the backfeild lead blocking

And also while we talk about the Wildcat , the stats show that it got LESS effective as the season went on , look how effective it was v Baltimore . Like most new things the more and more you use it the less effective it will be

Your idea of putting a rb at fb could only be used for passing downs or as a suprise IMO

Unless you have some kind of freak guy like Laron McClain who can play Full Back and Runningback because of his redicolous size

 

[RKO BLACK RKO]

All said basically

 

[Fox1994]

Mr Sanman has some good points. Back in the day both backs were basically todays halfbacks, but one would block more and one would run more. In fact, the fullback generally ran more. Like when Jim Brown had Bobby Mitchell and Leroy Kelly. Kelly and Mitchell were smaller guys, but they had to block when Jim got the ball... and vice versa.

Having two runningbacks [differentiating from fullbacks] wouldn't put you at a major disadvantage, it just depends on how you line up. Look at the Wishbone or the Flexbone or the Wing T. It's not just one guy blocking in those schemes. Each back plays a part.

I think this sort of innovative thinking is acceptable in Madden, but some things shouldn't be done. No-huddling after an incompletion before two minute warning... QB sneaks down the field... repetitive direct snaps... looping DEs... rocket catching... most of the stuff you see on Madden Nation...