The Cincinnati Reds are assholes....

[FirstTimer]

DaytonDailyNews: Dayton, Ohio, news and information

GOODYEAR, Ariz. — Jonny Gomes walked into the Cincinnati Reds spring training clubhouse early Wednesday morning singing at the top of his warbly voice.

The melody was not recognizable, but the words were plaintive: “Wainwright’s gone, Wainwright’s gone, Wainwright’s gone,” he sang joyously.

The reference was to St. Louis Cardinals starting pitcher Adam Wainwright, sent back to St. Louis Tuesday to have his ouchy elbow examined.

A few minutes later, the telephone in manager Dusty Baker’s office rang while he was meeting with the writers and he said, “Hey, son. Thank you, my son. Thank you big-time. Significant, huh? A significant injury. Thank you, my son, for the tip. I love you.”

Baker hung up laughing and said, “That was my son, Darren, giving me the Wainwright Report. That’s my scout right there.”

As luck would have it, Rick Hummell, baseball writer for the St. Louis Post-Dispatch was in Baker’s office Wednesday and before Baker’s son called, Hummell asked about Wainwright’s arm issues and Baker said, “What kind of arm issues does he have?”

Told that he had elbow issues, Baker smiled shyly and said, “Who are they going to blame for that one?” Baker, of course, is forever being accused (wrongfully) of ruining pitchers’ arms with overuse or misuse.

Nobody could tell if Baker had his fingers crossed or if he was winking at the time behind his sunglasses, but he said, “I really hate to see that. He is not only a good pitcher, but he seems like a fine young man, too. Every time I saw him or talked to him, he seemed very polite and respectful.

“Hmmmm. Boy, it’s early for those kind of problems,” Baker added. “Nobody has the depth to overcome a Wainwright. You can replace him, but in Wainwright and Chris Carpenter you’re talking two of the top six or seven pitchers in the league.

“Philadelphia has most of the other ones,” Baker said with a laugh.

IT IS GENERALLY known that the Cardinals and the Chicago Cubs are flaming rivals who are not prone to pleasant handshakes and polite hellos.

Are the Reds and Cardinals becoming that way - big rivals with a big distaste for each other?

“The Cubs and Cardinals are not only a historical rivalry, but a geographical rivalry, too,” said Baker. “There are a lot of Cardinals fans in southern Illinois and, of course, there are Cub fans everywhere.

“Historic and geographic rivalries remain the same, but new rivalries pop up periodically depending upon what’s happening and who is good and who is getting better,” said Baker.

That fits the Reds-Cardinals. For a decade, the Reds were no threats to anybody but themselves, so the Cardinals were not concerned with them. After last season, when the Reds re-emerged from their dark cave, the rivalry heated - fueled by Cincinnati second baseman Brandon Phillips and his comments about how much he despised the Cardinals.

“I remember when I played for the Dodgers, our big rival was the Cincinnati Reds because they were The Big Red Machine and they were in our division,” said Baker, “When The Big Red Machine was dismantled, it became the Dodgers and Houston because they were good and they had Nolan Ryan and J. R. Richard.”

Of the Reds and Cardinals, Baker added, “The Cardinals were the incumbent team and we were the coming team. When you’re the incumbent team you don’t want anybody to be the coming team. We play each other a whole bunch of times, too - like Boston, the Yankees and Tampa Bay. They play each other all spring then a bunch of times during the season. In only takes one little thing to spark things for a long period of time.”

And that would be The Phillips Comments.

AMAZINGLY, over the past four years, the Reds have used two No. 1 picks to draft catchers - Devin Mesoraco in 2007 and Yasmani Grandal in 2010.

During workouts, the two are always together, either working on their catching skills or taking batting practice. On Tuesday, both put on an impressive power display during batting practice.

“How would you like to be a catcher in our system, like poor Chris Denove?” said Baker, referring to a 28-year-old catcher who was selected in the 32nd round in 2005 and is in his seventh year in the club’s minor-league system.

“They don’t just have good power for catchers, they have good power for anybody,” said Baker. “Their futures are very bright. They are strong, work hard, pay attention and it is nice to have two like that.”

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

-Jonny Gomes is a flake

-Dusty Baker hates LaRussa, plus his comments were pretty cliche anyway "You really hate to see that, he's a fine young man, blah blah"

-A lot of people around baseball hate the Cardinals for their whiny/pompous/arrogant ways (to be fair, mostly because of LaDoucha and Carpenter. Even Carpenter's teamates don't like him), and it's safe to say Gomes was not the ony guy around baseball acting douchey about it today.

-Oh, and fuck the Cardinals. There is a reason why the rest of the divisions fans rally around whoever is in the race with them when the Cards are in the mix (which is pretty much every year). They have been good forever, and are also easy to hate.

 

[Woy]

Fuck the Reds.

Though I do like this rivalry that has been brewing over the past year.

 

[Goober]

The Cardinals have been outdouching the cubs for a while now. I was reading a Cardinal forum this morning just to take in the "sky is falling" attitude that they have right now; and a bunch of Cardinal fans verbally attacked a poster who simply pointed out Wainwright's bad arm angle and supported his argument with various .gifs. Talk about douche bag fans.

With Wainwright's mechanics and the number of breaking balls he throws it was bound to happen.

 

[strahanfan92]

Fuck the Reds.

Though I do like this rivalry that has been brewing over the past year.

this.

 

[FedEx227]

The Cardinals have been outdouching the cubs for a while now. I was reading a Cardinal forum this morning just to take in the "sky is falling" attitude that they have right now; and a bunch of Cardinal fans verbally attacked a poster who simply pointed out Wainwright's bad arm angle and supported his argument with various .gifs. Talk about douche bag fans.

With Wainwright's mechanics and the number of breaking balls he throws it was bound to happen.

230+ IP in back-to-back years probably didn't help matters either.

BUT NOLAN RYAN DID IT!!!11!!

/some out of touch douche

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

230+ IP in back-to-back years probably didn't help matters either.

BUT NOLAN RYAN DID IT!!!11!!

/some out of touch douche

-Bronson Arroyo 6 consecutive 200+ inning seasons

-Halladay last 5 seasons: 220, 225, 246, 239, 250

-Livan Hernandez has averaged 225 innings pitched over 15 seasons

-CC Sabathia has averaged 240 innings the last 4 seasons

-Mark Buehrle has averaged 223 innings over 11 seasons and had 4 consecutive over 230

Verlander, Felix, I can go on all day. Guys get hurt sometimes. They get hurt when they pitch a lot, they get hurt when you baby them. I can counter any example of supposed over use with two examples of guys who pitch just as much if not more and never get hurt.

Babying pitchers is the worst development in baseball over the last 25 years. Some guys are injury prone, some are not. Its a dice roll. Someone with a weak elbow or shoulder is eventually going to go down.

You can say talking about the past is "out of touch", but stats don't lie. Vida Blue, Nolan Ryan, and many others threw just as hard as todays pitchers (and you can go back further to Walter Johnson or Bob Feller or Lefty Grove), routinely threw 300 innings year after year, and pitched for 20 years relatively injury free. And that's with less advanced medicine, far worse workout habits, and pitching every four days instead of five.

Now these guys see doctors daily, have amazing workout programs, and throw every five days. They should actually be throwiing more innings than ever, not less.

Now, they pitch one day, and have a "throw day" three days later. You know what they called a "throw day" 30 years ago? Your next start.

I understand the mindset of protecting multimillion dollar investments, but it's like being afraid of shadows or the boogeyman. It just isnt there. But despite this, anytime a pitcher goes down, people run to baseballreference to look up the innings. Its silly.

 

[mcstl25]

lol at the Reds. They have their first decent season in 20 years and are suddenly relevant? Someone please wake me when the Reds win a playoff game. I'm sure they'll end 2011 in their regular 4th place spot in the Central after last year's fluke.

 

[NAHSTE]

I wouldn't worry about it too much, by the time Dusty's done with the Reds' young starters, they'll all be joining Wainwright on the DL.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Hal McCoy printed a retraction of the Gomes story:

DaytonDailyNews: Dayton, Ohio, news and information

"Gomes Gate" is clearly overblown at this point.

-Gomes can deny it all he wants, but I have no doubt he sang the words "Wainwright's gone". But he has to say he didn't say it, because of the world we are in these days. He was goofing around, McCoy should have conveyed that in his story.

-McCoy was wrong to report it regardless. He is a HOF writer who has been doing this for 40 years, he should know that something like this would get overblown. Far worse gets said in these locker rooms than Jonny Gomes singing some goofy song, and repoters know the line of what makes the paper and what shouldnt.

-Do you think their would be some smiles in the Boston clubhouse if ARod went down? How about Atlanta if Halladay was out for the year? St Louis if Votto got hurt?

Non story, shame on McCoy for starting this shit. Gomes is a goofball, what he was doing was goofy and harmless. Same writer who stirred the pot when Phillips made his comments last season.

 

[Rudi]

lol Gomes is just doing what all the fans in Redleg nation were doing. who gives a fuck. Hal McCoy is a great writer. Fuck the Cardinals, bring em on! Cueto will start kickin bitches again

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

lol Gomes is just doing what all the fans in Redleg nation were doing. who gives a fuck. Hal McCoy is a great writer. Fuck the Cardinals, bring em on! Cueto will start kickin bitches again

I know your just busting Cardinal balls right now, but McCoy should really know better. Stuff gets said in these clubhouses every day that should never be printed.

 

[FedEx227]

You can say talking about the past is "out of touch", but stats don't lie. Vida Blue, Nolan Ryan, and many others threw just as hard as todays pitchers (and you can go back further to Walter Johnson or Bob Feller or Lefty Grove), routinely threw 300 innings year after year, and pitched for 20 years relatively injury free. And that's with less advanced medicine, far worse workout habits, and pitching every four days instead of five.

These guys average time of delivery was significantly higher than we have today.

If you want to talk about the worst development in pitchers arms or habits, I believe it's significantly less use of the legs during the motion and more quick action with their elbow and shoulder to get the ball to the catcher as fast as possible.

They simply don't teach young pitchers to use their legs enough which puts enormous amounts of stress on the elbow and shoulder that doesn't compare to pitchers of the past, no matter how many innings or how hard they threw.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

These guys average time of delivery was significantly higher than we have today.

If you want to talk about the worst development in pitchers arms or habits, I believe it's significantly less use of the legs during the motion and more quick action with their elbow and shoulder to get the ball to the catcher as fast as possible.

They simply don't teach young pitchers to use their legs enough which puts enormous amounts of stress on the elbow and shoulder that doesn't compare to pitchers of the past, no matter how many innings or how hard they threw.

Good points