Trevor Hoffman Retires

[Youk]

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2...s-leader-trevor-hoffman-announces-retirement/

About time he retired, I wouldn't want to see him through another struggling season, after his horrible 2010. Also, nice to see that he refused to sign a contract with the Padres to just put on a jersey and then retire.

 

[Primetime]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrCw8po7JKo[/ame]

 

[Cody]

I agree with Youk. I was dreading another horrid season from him, nor did he deserve to have one.

 

[Rayman]

Great career for sure.

Enjoy retirement...and thanks for getting out of the way so Mo can nail the saves record. :smug:

 

[Senser81]

Good player, but not a HOFer

 

[FedEx227]

If Sutter and Fingers are in though, doesn't Hoffman have to get in?

 

[FedEx227]

Sutter: 2.83 ERA, 136 ERA+, 1.140 WHIP, 300 saves
Fingers: 2.90 ERA, 120 ERA+, 1.156 WHIP, 341 saves
Hoffman: 2.87 ERA, 141 ERA+, 1.058 WHIP, 601 saves

 

[FedEx227]

You do have to factor in the length of saves as well... Hoffman was mostly a 1 inning guy while the others really weren't.

I don't know. I hate closers...

 

[Primetime]

He has to get in. First player ever to 600. I wouldn't really care if he didn't get in, but I can't see him not getting the votes, especially a few years into the voting.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

If Sutter and Fingers are in though, doesn't Hoffman have to get in?

Sutter: 2.83 ERA, 136 ERA+, 1.140 WHIP, 300 saves
Fingers: 2.90 ERA, 120 ERA+, 1.156 WHIP, 341 saves
Hoffman: 2.87 ERA, 141 ERA+, 1.058 WHIP, 601 saves

You answered your own question. Different types of pitchers, asked to do different things, can't really compare. Just like you can't compare somebody like Hoyt Wilhelm to Sutter or Goose Gossage.

Hoffman had a lot of high profile blown saves that stick in my mind. People like to say he simply lacked the critical opportunities that Rivera had, but that's not really true. He even blew a save in the All Star Game.

I have a hard time wrapping my mind around putting a guy in the HOF who pitched 65 innings per year and did his best work on random nights in May or June by pitching easily forgettable 1-2-3 innings. Hoffman is the second best Rob Nenn/Rod Beck/Eric Gagne style CL, but that's like being the second best K during your era in the NFL. Is that HOF worthy?

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Almost forgot, Trevor Hoffman only led the league in saves twice.

 

[Senser81]

If Sutter and Fingers are in though, doesn't Hoffman have to get in?

Regardless of statistics, I think Sutter and Fingers were simply better than Hoffman.

But I think Sutter and Fingers more importantly had a greater impact on the MLB than Hoffman. Sutter was one of the first guys who was specifically a closer for his entire career...most of the other closers were just failed starters or older guys who couldn't pitch 9 innings at a time. Also, Sutter popularized the split-finger fastball because he was so dominant. Fingers was probably the first "high-profile" closer, and he was really good in the postseason.

Hoffman, to me, was just another good closer, but nothing really distinguished him from other good closers. Give me Tom Henke instead of Hoffman.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Senser is the worlds biggest Mr. Tom Henke supporter. He must have had Henke in one of those early archaic fantasy leagues, while one of his buddies ended up with Duane Ward.

 

[Senser81]

Sutter: 2.83 ERA, 136 ERA+, 1.140 WHIP, 300 saves
Fingers: 2.90 ERA, 120 ERA+, 1.156 WHIP, 341 saves
Hoffman: 2.87 ERA, 141 ERA+, 1.058 WHIP, 601 saves

Mr. Tom Henke: 2.67 ERA, 157 ERA+, 1.092 WHIP, 311 saves

 

[FedEx227]

Hoffman is the second best Rob Nenn/Rod Beck/Eric Gagne style CL, but that's like being the second best K during your era in the NFL. Is that HOF worthy?

I honestly wouldn't put any of the three in there, I just think the criteria is going to put Hoffman in there regardless. My post wasn't to say I WANT him in, I really can't stand any closers... just that he will get in.

 

[FedEx227]

WAR also favors Hoffman over Fingers and puts him slightly below Sutter. For the record, Fingers is one of the worst in the HOF in regards to WAR:

Fingers: 1.4 WAR/year, 24.4 career
Hoffman: 1.7 WAR/year, 30.7 career
Sutter: 2.0 WAR/year, 25.0 career

 

[Senser81]

WAR also favors Hoffman over Fingers and puts him slightly below Sutter. For the record, Fingers is one of the worst in the HOF in regards to WAR:

Fingers: 1.4 WAR/year, 24.4 career
Hoffman: 1.7 WAR/year, 30.7 career
Sutter: 2.0 WAR/year, 25.0 career

But how accurate is WAR when you are using it on guys who pitch 65 innings a year?

 

[FedEx227]

It's relative to other closers in baseball so it's fairly accurate unless Hoffman was the only closer/reliever in baseball throwing 65 innings while others were throwing 120.

 

[Senser81]

It's relative to other closers in baseball so it's fairly accurate unless Hoffman was the only closer/reliever in baseball throwing 65 innings while others were throwing 120.

One, such a small sample size (65 innings) would lead to greater variations of relativity, no?

Two, your statement is ironic since Sutter and Fingers were the only closers throwing 120 innings while most other relievers were only throwing 65 innings.

 

[FedEx227]

One, such a small sample size (65 innings) would lead to greater variations of relativity, no?

No doubt, but it's relative to other closers of the same year. So everyone is on a relatively small sample size. It's the nature of closers in this era. I see what you're saying but I still think his numbers hold up despite the low IP.