Official PlayStation 4 Thread

[KNUBB]

No one should be worried about the RAM. The type of RAM rumored for the PS4 is GDDR5(Look it up). It is a high end super efficient form of RAM. It can process things quicker with less RAM consumption.

[Twigg4075]

Hopefully the PS4 will have cross game chat.

...that works better than party chat on 360.

As much as people love to tout that feature on Xbox I don't think I've ever used it without it crapping out a few times during the play session. It did it several times while we were playing Forza the other night.

[Primetime]

...that works better than party chat on 360.

As much as people love to tout that feature on Xbox I don't think I've ever used it without it cropping out a few times during the play session. It did it several times while we were playing Forza the other night.

I've never had a single problem with cross game chatting. Start a party, invite friends, talk, never think twice about it.

[Handleit_44]

CVG sources: Sony to abandon DualShock design for PS4

New controller to break the mould; Touch-screen and biometric sensors being tested

A senior games studio source working on an upcoming Sony game says the new system's controller has undergone numerous iterations, few of which resemble the DualShock build that has become synonymous with PlayStation.
Experiments within Sony's R&D department are thought to have been extensive. Versions of the new PS4 pad include biometric sensors on the grips and an LCD touch screen, the development source claimed.

A second source, working in a separate part of the industry but still connected to Sony, said PlayStation engineers are "trying to emulate the same user interface philosophies as the PS Vita". This is likely a reference to the touch-screen capabilities of the PlayStation handheld, and a suggestion that Sony will tightly integrate its portable and home systems.

The new console - codenamed Orbis - will be revealed in a matter of weeks, not months.

Sony has declined to comment.

While the DualShock will not be a primary controller for the next PlayStation, it is likely that the range of PS3 controllers will be compatible with the next-gen system. There is a possibility they could be used as secondary controllers, much like with how Wii Remotes interact with the Wii U.

One potential stumbling block is Sony's complex partnership with Immersion - the patent-holder of the rumble tech used in Sony's pads. In March 2007, Immersion settled its patent infringement suit with Sony, after claiming that the company had used its technologies without permission.

CVG understands that Sony has paid Immersion more than $150 million in damages, license fees and other costs since the settlement. However, a small portion (initially $20 million) of this was redirected to Microsoft, which owns about 10 per cent of Immersion.

Sony's licence agreement with Immersion ends in 2017, SEC documents show, but as part of the deal Immersion has given Sony an option to expand the scope of the licence for future consoles. However, the complications of the deal may have convinced Sony that it should seek different designs and ideas for its next controller.

Sony introduced the DualShock for the first PlayStation in 1997 - its twin analogue sticks were, at the time, considered a distinct improvement over the N64 pads from rival Nintendo.

Over the years, the controller has evolved to include rumble tech (as well as briefly omit it), as well as add on wireless capabilities and limited motion control properties.

In 2007 Sony won an Emmy award for 'Peripheral Development and Technological Impact of Videogame Controllers'.

The new PS4 controller design, which remains a closely guarded secret across the PlayStation organisation, is expected to break new mould for Sony. The biometric tech, in particular, is something games studios such as Valve are interested in due to its function as a heart beat sensor.

During the development of the PlayStation 3, Sony initially signalled its interest in building a new controller by showcasing the infamous 'banana pad' - a model that was swiftly replaced by the DualShock following public derision.

[padman59]

Info from Eurogamer with some next gen xbox stuff too. (long)

 

Both the next generation PlayStation - and its Xbox competitor - feature eight-core CPUs clocked at 1.6GHz according to sources trusted by Digital Foundry. The main processor architecture driving both consoles is said to be derived the new "Jaguar" technology currently in development by Intel's arch-rival, AMD. These are low-power processor cores designed for the entry-level laptop and tablet market, offering an excellent ratio between power consumption and performance. The PC Jaguar products are set to ship later this year in a quad-core configuration - next-gen consoles see the core count double with some customisations added to the overall design.

Married to the eight-core processor, Orbis also features Radeon HD graphics hardware. We've previously suggested that AMD's mobile "Pitcairn" design - the Radeon 7970M - could be a strong basis for a next-gen console graphics core in terms of power consumption and die-size. Running at 850MHz and featuring 20 of AMD's "Graphics Core Next" compute units, our information suggests that Orbis shaves off 10 per cent of that number, offering up 18 CUs in total, and sees a mild downclock to 800MHz. Incorporated into a design dedicated to cutting-edge visuals and gameplay, this hardware has some serious potential.

It is perhaps more than coincidence that these specs offer up the 1.84 teraflops metric for the Orbis GPU that was mooted yesterday, assuming that the figure is calculated in the same way that it is for AMD's current "Graphics Core Next" range of products. At this time we cannot confirm the make-up of the Durango graphics hardware - rumours have circulated for quite some time that it is some way behind Orbis, but equally there has been the suggestion that the GPU itself is supplemented by additional task-specific hardware. We could not confirm this, but an ex-Microsoft staffer with a prior relationship with the Xbox team says that two of these modules are graphics-related.

The Radeon 7970M laptop GPU appears to be a pretty close match for the processing tech inside the next-gen PlayStation - there's a small reduction in clock speed and the amount of compute units, but otherwise it's very close. Here's what this tech can achieve in pure PC terms with Crysis 2 performance compared at the very high and extreme graphical presets. Freed from Windows and incorporated into a fixed console design, this GPU will really have room to show us what it's truly capable of.

However, there's a fair amount of "secret sauce" in Orbis and we can disclose details on one of the more interesting additions. Paired up with the eight AMD cores, we find a bespoke GPU-like "Compute" module, designed to ease the burden on certain operations - physics calculations are a good example of traditional CPU work that are often hived off to GPU cores. We're assured that this is bespoke hardware that is not a part of the main graphics pipeline but we remain rather mystified by its standalone inclusion, bearing in mind Compute functions could be run off the main graphics cores and that devs could have the option to utilise that power for additional graphical grunt, if they so chose.

Previous rumours have suggested that Orbis runs its CPU cores along with some graphics hardware inside a standalone, custom AMD Fusion core with a separate, discrete GPU. Our sources suggest otherwise - all of these elements are embedded into the same piece of silicon, and we can confirm that the internal codename for the processor is indeed "Liverpool", as was mooted some time ago. Sony does have some form here for pushing the envelope - PlayStation Vita represents the only mobile GPU processor that combined quad-core ARM Cortex A9s with the PowerVR SGX543 MP4. Even on the power-hungry iPad 3, Apple stuck with dual-core CPU architecture at the same 45nm fabrication node.

The news that so much processing power is packed onto a single processor is highly significant to the point where credibility could be stretched somewhat. However, helping to explain matters is the make-up of AMD's Jaguar tech - each core occupies just 3.1mm2 of die-space at the 28nm fabrication standard. Factor in L2 cache, and the overall CPU component could be as little as 75-80mm2 in total. That's in contrast to the 235mm2 of the launch PS3's Cell processor and the 240mm2 of the Emotion Engine chip inside the original PlayStation 2 - neither of which factored in the separate graphics hardware, which in both cases was even larger. By our reckoning, the more efficient eight-core set-up still leaves plenty of space for integrating the main GPU onto the same die, with space to spare. This offers up significant production cost savings and brings down overall power consumption.

"Orbis has a singular focus on delivering high-end performance without breaking the bank - our take on the specs is that this is a machine built to last with a huge amount of potential."

Here's what a mobile Intel quad-core with Radeon 7970M can achieve on Battlefield 3 - superb performance at 1080p on medium settings and still highly impressive on the high preset. This is the kind of ballpark processing performance we expect to see on next-gen consoles, but bear in mind this is couched in PC terms. In a dedicated gaming box, we should expect much better once developers get to grips with the hardware.

Bearing in mind that the 7970M draws just 75W and that Orbis cuts out a couple of compute units in combination with a drop of around six per cent reduction in clock speed, we can easily envisage the unit drawing no more than 150W from the mains overall once we factor in RAM, CPU and storage power draw. This compares favourably to consumption that sailed perilously close to 200W on the original versions of the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 and should reduce the dangers of another RROD/YLOD debacle.

We also have hard data on Orbis's memory set-up. It features 4GB of GDDR5 - the ultra-fast RAM that typically ships with the latest PC graphics cards - with 512MB reserved for the operating system. This is in stark contrast to the much slower DDR3 that Durango will almost certainly ship with. Microsoft looks set to be using an offshoot of eDRAM technology connected to the graphics core to offset the bandwidth issues the use of DDR3 incurs. Volume of RAM is the key element in Durango's favour - there'll be 8GB in total, with a significant amount (two sources we've spoken to suggest 3GB in total) reserved for the OS.

There'll be a relatively high CPU overhead too, with potentially two cores reserved for the customisable apps Microsoft wants to run in parallel with gameplay. Orbis has no such ambitions and may power past the new Xbox simply because it focuses its resources on out-and-out games power. There's always the possibility that Microsoft has looked at the prior success of Nintendo and its own Kinect and come to the conclusion that chasing after the maximum in raw horsepower isn't the way to win the next console war.

"The next-gen Xbox refines DirectX 11 for a fixed hardware gaming platform while Orbis sees a revised version of the LibGCM API used on PlayStation 3 and PS Vita."

Arch Durango leaker SuperDAE has already revealed next-gen Xbox devkit pictures plus this screenshot of the Visual Studio development environment...

While Durango continues to hoard many of its secrets, we now have a very good idea of the basic architectural outline of the next-gen PlayStation. So the question is, what sort of performance ballpark are we talking about here? In our Radeon 7970M review, we ran Battlefield 3 on medium settings, and Crysis 2 likewise on its very high preset - both at the magical 1080p60. With some frame-rate drops we could ramp that up to high and extreme respectively for a perfectly playable, visually arresting experience. In our tests the Radeon GPU ran in concert with a 2.3GHz Intel quad-core CPU; bearing in mind the firm's domination over AMD in single-thread performance, not to mention the Turbo Boost technology that automatically overclocks the CPU to thermal limits, we reckon this is a fairly good ballpark comparison to an eight-core AMD CPU (primarily aimed at entry level markets, remember) running at a relatively low clock speed.

Of course, these ballpark tests are not the be-all-and-end-all of next-gen power - let's not forget that the new consoles are dedicated games machines gifted with a host of advantages over PC hardware. Factor out the overhead of the Windows OS, introduce ever-evolving development tools written for a fixed platform, and consider the performance advantages of a dedicated design - particularly the fast interconnects between CPU, GPU and RAM. What we have here is hardware that easily punches above its weight compared to performance couched purely in PC terms. It's a state of affairs borne out by both the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3: by 2007, PC hardware had already moved significantly beyond the raw horsepower offered by current-gen consoles, yet games like God of War 3, Halo 4 and Uncharted 3 have extracted visual performance that could only have been dreamed of back then. Based on what we know about the next-gen consoles, there's little reason why history can't repeat itself.

That said, the AMD connection that defines both Durango and Orbis confirms that both consoles are much closer in design to gaming PCs than their predecessors, which may result in stronger ports to the computer format, not to mention the upcoming Steam Box - a piece of hardware free to evolve and grow more powerful year upon year in a way that Sony and Microsoft's boxes can't. And surely Valve must be looking at these specs with perhaps a little relief - AMD's CPU architecture is designed with power efficiency in mind, and in pure performance terms, even an eight-core set-up should be comfortably out-performed by a fast, modern desktop Intel quad-core processor. In developing and optimising next-gen titles for the lower power console CPUs, it would be richly ironic if PC owners reaped the benefits...

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-orbis-unmasked-what-to-expect-from-next-gen-console

[JBauerisGod]

CVG sources: Sony to abandon DualShock design for PS4

Anyone worried that we will see another one of these?


The Dualshock works. They don't need to reinvent the wheel here.

[Epidemik]

Anyone worried that we will see another one of these?


The Dualshock works. They don't need to reinvent the wheel here.

Doubt they go boomerang. It most probably will look similar to the dualshock with maybe added minor buttons or maybe real triggers on L2 and R2. But hey, we'll see

[KNUBB]

I'm honestly expecting them go to with something along the lines of the 360 controller

[Swarley]

A better grip and the addition of triggers is what I'm expecting to see.

[Twigg4075]

I've never had a single problem with cross game chatting. Start a party, invite friends, talk, never think twice about it.

Yeah, I guess it's just me.

Are you seriously saying you never have issues?

Every time I use it people drop in and out of the party and sometimes you'll get the 'Can' t connect to party chat" message. Feel free to ask Swarley, JMS, Garrett and Pepper about Forza the other night. And the last time before that it was Halo 4. Same shit constantly occurred.

[PepperNY]

Yeah, I guess it's just me.

Are you seriously saying you never have issues?

Every time I use it people drop in and out of the party and sometimes you'll get the 'Can' t connect to party chat" message. Feel free to ask Swarley, JMS, Garrett and Pepper about Forza the other night. And the last time before that it was Halo 4. Same shit constantly occurred.

That stuff happens sometimes but it's not an everyday occurrence. It rarely happens but Id still rather deal with that then not to have it at all

[Guest]

Anyone worried that we will see another one of these?


The Dualshock works. They don't need to reinvent the wheel here.

Remember when they eliminated the rumble function from the controller at launch, only to reinstitute it not even a year later? Don't fix what's not broken. Both controller designs for PS3 and 360 are pretty good, and I can go between the two seamlessly. I guess maybe that's why they want to switch it up?

I just looked at the games I have for PS3. Since the new 360 will have Blu Ray, I am not sure I can justify a console just for the God of War and The Show franchises, especially since MVP baseball could be making a comeback with the 2K agreement over.

[Guest]

...that works better than party chat on 360.

As much as people love to tout that feature on Xbox I don't think I've ever used it without it crapping out a few times during the play session. It did it several times while we were playing Forza the other night.

Only time I have an issue is if the person who started party chat logs off. Other than that, no problems.

[Maynard]

half the problem is people not having things configured the right way. with both live and psn things have to be setup the proper way in the router. if ports are not open then problems persist

[JBregz]

How is blu ray going to work on the new Xbox? Do they have to pay Royalties or something? Didn't Sony create the blu-ray?