The Competition between Madden and 2K is closer than you think

[Guest]

As Thunderhorse alluded to, I loved in the NHL games back from 00-04 that, at a certain level, you would see an icon (or more) next to a player if they had a rating in that category high enough. I would love to see that put into other sports games, and back into the NHL game for that matter. Definitely make it rare, so having a star player actually means something in the large scheme of things.

[Aso]

As Thunderhorse alluded to, I loved in the NHL games back from 00-04 that, at a certain level, you would see an icon (or more) next to a player if they had a rating in that category high enough. I would love to see that put into other sports games, and back into the NHL game for that matter. Definitely make it rare, so having a star player actually means something in the large scheme of things.

That is what Madden used to do and all that does is make the game look really tacky.

APF abilities went a lot farther beyond that. I'm all for APF like abilities. I'm completely against the old Madden like weapon icons. Those don't mean anything. Most people know that players like Devin Hester are fast. They don't need a little lightning bolt to remind them.

[Steel Mamba]

The old weapons feature in Madden was more of a marketing tool than an actual feature that made the gameplay more realistic. I can't really see them sinking resources into anything in depth like signature animations and unique abilities. I think it's clear by now that their top priority is profit margins so they try to keep the development process as inexpensive as possible. If that wasn't the case, we'd see those type of things by now. Again, 7 years and very little progress towards anything. They're milking it.

Also, it's one thing if you have a great title like the Show and let off the gas, but Madden isn't in that category yet. Plus, there's only so much you can do with a baseball game, whereas with Madden there are numerous fundamental aspects of the game that are missing or not replicated properly. Apples to oranges imo.

[kingbryk]

Only way 2k could ever compete is if they have all the NFL players and NFL teams on board. I could never buy a game where i play as the cleveland dragons and have a few old fart players on the team. Sorry no chance hate fake sports teams.

[SimFBallCritic]

Only way 2k could ever compete is if they have all the NFL players and NFL teams on board. I could never buy a game where i play as the cleveland dragons and have a few old fart players on the team. Sorry no chance hate fake sports teams.

Good point. That's important to real sports fans, you want to play with your team.

[SimFBallCritic]

The old weapons feature in Madden was more of a marketing tool than an actual feature that made the gameplay more realistic. I can't really see them sinking resources into anything in depth like signature animations and unique abilities. I think it's clear by now that their top priority is profit margins so they try to keep the development process as inexpensive as possible. If that wasn't the case, we'd see those type of things by now. Again, 7 years and very little progress towards anything. They're milking it.

Also, it's one thing if you have a great title like the Show and let off the gas, but Madden isn't in that category yet. Plus, there's only so much you can do with a baseball game, whereas with Madden there are numerous fundamental aspects of the game that are missing or not replicated properly. Apples to oranges imo.

Truth is the Devs are pushing for all that kind of stuff, just depends on when the suits consider it priority. People will be surprised by future Maddens.

[SimFBallCritic]

That is what Madden used to do and all that does is make the game look really tacky.

APF abilities went a lot farther beyond that. I'm all for APF like abilities. I'm completely against the old Madden like weapon icons. Those don't mean anything. Most people know that players like Devin Hester are fast. They don't need a little lightning bolt to remind them.

True, I don't want it to just be cosmetic.

[buckeye]

That is what Madden used to do and all that does is make the game look really tacky.

APF abilities went a lot farther beyond that. I'm all for APF like abilities. I'm completely against the old Madden like weapon icons. Those don't mean anything. Most people know that players like Devin Hester are fast. They don't need a little lightning bolt to remind them.

Completely agree as well! When Bill and I were there a few months back I brought up the weapons and how bad the icons looked, but overall the concept was correct. Player traits/weapons need to be more situationally based and tiered for greats players to show their skill level above average guys.

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[Steel Mamba]

Truth is the Devs are pushing for all that kind of stuff, just depends on when the suits consider it priority. People will be surprised by future Maddens.

I'm sure that is the case, like I mentioned earlier it's all about profit margins for EA. Meaning it's the executives that know nothing about football that are making the decisions and potentially holding the game back. All these guys care about are the numbers and as long as the game continues to sale in droves then the title is a huge success to them. Which is why it's important for fans not to buy Madden if they really care about the genre. Stop buying a bad product. At that point, the execs will see that there's a problem and invoke change and begin to allow the devs the resources or freedom they need to take Madden to the next level. As is, the fans are just as much to blame as EA is for the lack of progress with Madden.

As far as being surprised by future Maddens, we hear this every single year man.

The devs can push for things all they want, if the end result is what we've been given then them pushing for a better game means absolutely nothing.

[ThunderHorse]

Only way 2k could ever compete is if they have all the NFL players and NFL teams on board. I could never buy a game where i play as the cleveland dragons and have a few old fart players on the team. Sorry no chance hate fake sports teams.

There's nothing wrong with this line of thinking because it's simply a matter of preference. But it is also precisely what hurt us as consumers. People unwilling to even try generic games and edit them to play with their favorite teams will make it harder for any company to even attempt to compete in the market.

If 2K really is coming back to NFL football, it will be a relief to see they have the license and that consumers may actually give the game a chance.

Good point. That's important to real sports fans, you want to play with your team.

I know a lot of real sport fans that want to see the game they love properly and authentically replicated in their gaming experience. Regardless of the product being licensed or not.

One shouldn't have to let their fanatic affiliation with a professional football franchise hinder their gaming experience by refusing to even try a generic game because they can't use the hometown team. The last console cycle has proven that this line of thinking is precisely what ensures us playing the same game over a console generation.

I think real sport fans, ones who appreciate the sport before their favorite teams, are the ones who will be willing to try the generic game because they are searching for a more authentic replication and experience. I think your Casual fans, ones who simply support a team or only like watching NFL football, are the ones who will refuse to play a generic game. Even if it's a the better game.

I think "Some", "A lot", or even "Most" sport fans would have been a better choice of words, but maybe we have a different definition of "real".

[buckeye]

There's nothing wrong with this line of thinking because it's simply a matter of preference. But it is also precisely what hurt us as consumers. People unwilling to even try generic games and edit them to play with their favorite teams will make it harder for any company to even attempt to compete in the market.

If 2K really is coming back to NFL football, it will be a relief to see they have the license and that consumers may actually give the game a chance.



I know a lot of real sport fans that want to see the game they love properly and authentically replicated in their gaming experience. Regardless of the product being licensed or not.

One shouldn't have to let their fanatic affiliation with a professional football franchise hinder their gaming experience by refusing to even try a generic game because they can't use the hometown team. The last console cycle has proven that this line of thinking is precisely what ensures us playing the same game over a console generation.

I think real sport fans, ones who appreciate the sport before their favorite teams, are the ones who will be willing to try the generic game because they are searching for a more authentic replication and experience. I think your Casual fans, ones who simply support a team or only like watching NFL football, are the ones who will refuse to play a generic game. Even if it's a the better game.

I think "Some", "A lot", or even "Most" sport fans would have been a better choice of words, but maybe we have a different definition of "real".

1st off....Great post.

I think a lot of it boils down to time. Many gamers just want to play and get that release rather than spend an hour or so editing rosters.

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[Senser81]

Abilities is what does it the most for me.

Simple example, in 2K8 Derrick Thomas has the ball strip ability. I've played Madden for years and I've never seen Robert Mathis or Freeney come off the edge and perform one of those patented strip moves on the quarterback that we see on Sundays. Derrick Thomas will do it in 2K8. It's one animation, and it gets stale seeing the same one every time, but how the mechanic functions is what jumps out to me.

I know that if I can get Thomas a free lane to the quarterback's backside there's a good chance I will force a fumble in a realistic manner, not the AI's Dice Roll deciding my opponent's QB was going to fumble. It's a truly functional mechanic that deepens the game in multiple aspects. From a strategic aspect having Thomas' skill set means that my pass rush is that more dangerous, specifically because there's only 1 or 2 other guys that have the skill set, and neither of them can perform at the HOF level Thomas does. From a gameplay perspective, there's a learning curve on the ability; You have to be able to time it correctly and have the skill to maneuver around lineman and runningbacks to get the quarterback as efficiently and quickly as possible.

This was/is the biggest difference 2K and Madden, IMO. In 2K, the players themselves were an important part of the gameplay, and you could actually see and feel a difference between Warrick Dunn and Jamal Lewis. The ability ratings meant something, and players had specific strengths and weaknesses.

In Madden, the players seemed to be inconsequential to whatever the AI wanted to have happen. The only tangible difference between Reggie Bush and Ron Dayne was that Bush was faster, as the only player rating of any value was speed. You basically had two types of players in Madden, "good" (fast) and "bad" (slow). It got so bad that EA started using lame "impact player" features, which would artificially boost player ratings, just so LaDainian Tomlinson would perform better than Samkon Gado.

[Golden Taters]

The problem with EA football is everything is tied to animations, players just mirror each other. 2K let ratings play out more that's why you will actually see the WR try to fight around a CB and things like this. The game just feels more open.

[buckeye]

The problem with EA football is everything is tied to animations, players just mirror each other. 2K let ratings play out more that's why you will actually see the WR try to fight around a CB and things like this. The game just feels more open.

I have always felt the same with 2K... especially the dline play. Maybe it was just in my head I don't know. Either way hope to see both games out again soon.

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