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*<|8-D -
The lack of discussion in here upsets me
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I think we're beginning to see Varys become very interesting. Even got a bit of a glimpse of his backstory for the first time during his excellent scene with Oberyn.
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Originally posted by Tailback UComment
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So am I right that Tywin was BSing Jamie about his proposition ?
BTW this trial by combat thing is so weird , I assume it doesnt have to be honored but since he's Lannister blood it will be ?
I forget does someone have to volunteer or does he pick ?Best reason to have a license.
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1. Not really. Tywin is a smart guy. I'm sure he knows Tyrion is innocent and never intended to have him killed, he never explicitly mentions he plans on taking Tyrion's head, he always refers to it simply as the "punishment". Jaime willing to give in to Tywin is icing on the cake with Jaime playing right into Tywin's hand. Either way, Shae's testimony set Tyrion off, therefore having him go the only route he trusted he would have a chance to live - a trial by combat. Now he must find someone to fight for him.
2. It does not have to be honored, no. Ned Stark's dad (Rickard Stark) requested a trial by combat from The Mad King and he was burned alive in his armor instead.
3. Tyrion has to find someone willing to fight for him. He can't just select anyone. They have to agree.Comment
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1. No, I think Tywin would love to have Jaime inherit Casterly Rock and depose of Tyrion by sending him to the wall. His quick "done" response to me indicates that he finds this a favorable outcome and maybe even had this in mind all along.
2. This breaks it down pretty well, but yeah essentially the trial by combat stuff is very loosely regulated if at all:
Charlie asks, “I am pumped for this trial by combat twist and all the associated possibilities. One question: wouldn’t every Westeros trial eventually devolve into trial by combat — the courtroom equivalent of a 60-yard Hail Mary — once you knew you were screwed? Why wouldn’t everyone play that card?”
Well, every trial we’ve seen has come down to combat, so it seems as if everyone does play it. Narratively speaking, I guess it’s like Chekhov’s sword; if you introduce the concept of trial by combat, then, if there’s going to be a trial, we better see dudes fighting with swords by the third act. That said, the Westerosi justice system isn’t all-inclusive or even remotely consistent. Highborns can demand a trial from those of a similar social station, for instance, and once granted, they can then demand a trial by combat. It’s unclear if knights can demand a trial, but once put on trial, they, too, can demand trial by combat. Now, if the defendant is, say, Mycah the butcher’s boy, well, feel free to have the Hound ride him down and then let’s all have dinner.
In the books, when Tyrion demands a trial from batty Lysa Arryn, he does so after calculating that being Tywin’s son and the queen’s brother means that Lady Lysa can’t just chuck him through the Moon Door without due process. That gamble paid off, but it’s by no means a sure thing in every situation, as the defendant, from noble house or not, is still at the mercy of the whims of whichever lord or lady is holding them, and, like, that person could be crazy. Ned’s father, Rickard Stark, demanded trial by combat from the Mad King, who responded by having Lord Rickard roasted alive in his own armor over a pit of wildfire™, Iron Chef–style, in front of his son, Ned’s brother, Brandon. So, win some, lose some. I imagine that if Theon of House Greyjoy demanded a trial from Roose Bolton the response would be something like “Hahaha,” and then they’d cut off one of his ass cheeks. Beric Dondarrion (a knight and a lord) and the Brotherhood Without Banners put Sandor Clegane (not a knight, but from a family of knights) on trial, but Beric & Bros. are also a weird religious cult with an infinite lives cheat code that’s not at all representative of normal Westerosi jurisprudence. Pretty easy to pass a sentence of trial by combat for a guy who views death as a voluntary state of not being alive for 30 seconds. Which is all a long-winded way of saying, pretty much every trial does devolve into a trial by combat, but trials themselves are pretty rare.*
(*Speaking of rare, the prequel books also describe a variation of trial by combat called a “trial of seven,” which is basically a seven-on-seven battle royale. This form of ancient and super-seldom-invoked trial by combat was brought over by the Andals and is related to another Andal invention, the Faith of the Seven, which is now the mainstream religion of Westeros. One catch: The accused must have six friends willing to get maimed.)
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Curious as to who the show-only fellas think will be fighting in the trial by combatComment
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Just re watched the scene. Yeah he gave a super quick reaction. Thought it was a "ha sucker" moment.
Man next week should be interesting. Amazing how deep this show is. (History of trial by combat)Best reason to have a license.
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Tywin only ever says that Tyrion would be "punished accordingly" , even when Jamie was insinuating that this trial was nothing but a fast track to the gallows.
I don't think Tywin ever planned to do more than send the son he could barely stand looking at to the most desolate place he could south of the wall. Jamie basically sacrificed his "freedom" for nothing in my opinion.
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