40 years from now...

[Pitty]

There are three people around that age in this thread who admitted to knowing the name, but could not identify with his music and didnt know any of his songs. And two of those people (heels & relaxed) are gigantic music fans.

I would bet nearly EVERY SINGLE FUCKING PERSON ON THIS SITE not only knows who Britney Spears is, but can instantly recognize her music. She is far more recognizable that West, I don't even think it's worth debating, frankly.

I knew his name, and after investigating, recognized some of his songs. And even though I knew the songs, I wouldnt have known most of them were his if they had come on the radio or whatever.

And i'm your perfect test subject to determine how "memorable" or "recognizable" he is, because im not part of his fan base and I dont enjoy his genre of music. If he was so transcendent of his bubble (you know, like a real famous musician like Spears), his fame and recognizability (is that a word?) would extend to people like me. White guys over 30 who think his music sucks, and wouldnt be caught dead listening to it. Eminem, Spears, and a host of others succeed in this, West falls short.

I dont care if you think he's more talented, or if he's more critically acclaimed. That doesnt mean anything in terms of the question in the OP.

Every single argument you are making is based on your own perception. You're the only person on this site who doesn't know a Kanye song off the top of their head. The fact that you say this gives you no credence to say anything about his music. You don't listen to him, how could you possibly know his bubble? He's ranged from Rap to Pop, R&B to Indie, rock to New Wave. He has a much more diverse catalog than any other current popular musician.

Critical acclaim and Album sales don't determine a lasting legacy? Then what does? Your arbitrary "broadness" of someone's music?

If he doesn't have a broad fanbase, how did he get bookings at traditionally indie/alternative/folk concerts like Coachella and Bonnaroo?

No matter how many times you mention this retarded bubble concept, no one is for a second accepting that Kanye is stuck within one.

Also, Britney Spears Career: 1997-2011, Kanye West's Career: 2004-2011. Mentioning that someone who has been around twice as long is more recognizable right now is so fucking stupid. I'd be willing to bet a fair sum that Baby Boomers remember the Monkees more than Britney Spears, does that make a cheap Beatles TV ripoff have a legacy? No.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Every single argument you are making is based on your own perception. You're the only person on this site who doesn't know a Kanye song off the top of their head. The fact that you say this gives you no credence to say anything about his music. You don't listen to him, how could you possibly know his bubble? He's ranged from Rap to Pop, R&B to Indie, rock to New Wave. He has a much more diverse catalog than any other current popular musician.

Critical acclaim and Album sales don't determine a lasting legacy? Then what does? Your arbitrary "broadness" of someone's music?

If he doesn't have a broad fanbase, how did he get bookings at traditionally indie/alternative/folk concerts like Coachella and Bonnaroo?

No matter how many times you mention this retarded bubble concept, no one is for a second accepting that Kanye is stuck within one.

Wrong. Multiple people IN THIS THREAD have admitted this.

I bet nearly everyone knows a Britney Spears song, though.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Are your parents more likely to know who Spears is, or Kanye West?

The answer is obvious.

[Pitty]

Are your parents more likely to know who Spears is, or Kanye West?

The answer is obvious.

They know both of them, because they live on earth.

[Realist]

There are three people around that age in this thread who admitted to knowing the name, but could not identify with his music and didnt know any of his songs. And two of those people (heels & relaxed) are gigantic music fans.

I would bet nearly EVERY SINGLE FUCKING PERSON ON THIS SITE not only knows who Britney Spears is, but can instantly recognize her music. She is far more recognizable that West, I don't even think it's worth debating, frankly.

I knew his name, and after investigating, recognized some of his songs. And even though I knew the songs, I wouldnt have known most of them were his if they had come on the radio or whatever.

And i'm your perfect test subject to determine how "memorable" or "recognizable" he is, because im not part of his fan base and I dont enjoy his genre of music. If he was so transcendent of his bubble (you know, like a real famous musician like Spears), his fame and recognizability (is that a word?) would extend to people like me. White guys over 30 who think his music sucks, and wouldnt be caught dead listening to it. Eminem, Spears, and a host of others succeed in this, West falls short.

I dont care if you think he's more talented, or if he's more critically acclaimed. That doesnt mean anything in terms of the question in the OP.

I can see your overall point, but I just can't figure out how you assume (and yes I do believe it's an assumption) that people can just point out a Spears sound but can't point out Kanye unless they are under 30. I believe thats a stretch in itself.

I went to see hangover 2 this weekend and we sat next to an old white couple and when they played a snippet of Kanye's song, they knew it. I'm sure there are plenty of examples that could go both ways.

Quite honestly, U probably know some of Brittany's music but I probably wouldn't know it was her unless I asked my lady who more into that type of music than I am. I know her more for her non-music antics.

The only difference I see with the 2, and I'm only using these 2 because they are being compared, is that one is white and one is black. Both have made hits and both have been in the media for negative reasons.

Are your parents more likely to know who Spears is, or Kanye West?

The answer is obvious.

I think that would have a lot to do with race, imo

I know 40 years from now I'll still be listening to Nas and OutKast.

This. I think they will be remembered.

[Warner2BruceTD]

There's a book out about this called The Long Tail. In it Chris Anderson describes how the internet has moved us away from the hits and stars model of the past into a series of individual and personalised niches.

Back in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s and most of the 90s everyone would go into work in the morning and they would have all watched the same TV shows the night before, all read the same newspapers that morning and all listened to the same music on the radio on the way to work. Now there are so many different entertainment avenues to choose from that it's rare to have a wide overlap between people.

Pitty, maybe you missed this post.

It's very easy for people to avoid shit that they dont like these days. It's very, very hard to truly breakthrough on a true mainstream level as opposed to 20, 30, 40 years ago.

[Pitty]

Wrong. Multiple people IN THIS THREAD have admitted this.

I bet nearly everyone knows a Britney Spears song, though.

You have mentioned it multiple times, but other than that, the most underground music head I've ever seen (whom I've never seen mention listening to any Hip Hop/Rap) is the only other person in this thread who said that.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Also, Britney Spears Career: 1997-2011, Kanye West's Career: 2004-2011. Mentioning that someone who has been around twice as long is more recognizable right now is so fucking stupid. I'd be willing to bet a fair sum that Baby Boomers remember the Monkees more than Britney Spears, does that make a cheap Beatles TV ripoff have a legacy? No.

Do you even know the thread you are posting in?

Amazing.

[Warner2BruceTD]

You have mentioned it multiple times, but other than that, the most underground music head I've ever seen (whom I've never seen mention listening to any Hip Hop/Rap) is the only other person in this thread who said that.

That's the point.

If you arent a fan of the genre, you likely either dont know who he is, or wouldnt recognize one of his songs.

You wanna guess why?

He doesnt transcend his bubble. Almost nobody does these days. For reasons sprinkled all over this thread that run far deeper than "he sold a bunch of records".

Stars from 10, 20, 30 years ago were famous beyond their genre. it's harder to do that now. Kanye is actually the best example of this.

[Pitty]

Do you even know the thread you are posting in?

Amazing.

Analogy, learn the definition. Britney Spears is a pop-sensation, nothing more, nothing less. People don't give a shit about her anymore (actually. that's precisely why you don't hear anymore of her music ANYWHERE today). Just because they still know her (wow she only came out 10 years ago whodathunk she'd not be forgotten yet?) does not mean she will have a lasting legacy. Think of the artists you know who are remembered for their legacy, innovators and personas, the Beatles, Elvis, The Beach Boys, etc. Does Spears have a persona? Can you name anything standout about her besides her trailer trash marriage, or cooter flashing?

That's the point.

If you arent a fan of the genre, you likely either dont know who he is, or wouldnt recognize one of his songs.

You wanna guess why?

He doesn't transcend his bubble. Almost nobody does these days. For reasons sprinkled all over this thread that run far deeper than "he sold a bunch of records".

Stars from 10, 20, 30 years ago were famous beyond their genre. it's harder to do that now. Kanye is actually the best example of this.

Doesn't the fact that Kanye has multiple #1 airplay hits kind of shit on that argument? Doesn't the fact that Britney Spears always has and always will only appeal to Pop fans (she's never made any other genre of music even though you seem to be implying this) put her in a bubble?

[relaxedanderson]

You have mentioned it multiple times, but other than that, the most underground music head I've ever seen (whom I've never seen mention listening to any Hip Hop/Rap) is the only other person in this thread who said that.

But that's the point he's making; transcending your own bubble and being widely known by people who have no interest in your music.

I could sit here and reel off plenty of songs by a band like Abba, and I fucking hate Abba with a passion. Same goes for acts like the Bee Gees, U2 and Madonna; I would love to not know any of their music but its ingrained from a time when you didn't have a hell of a lot of choice of listening material. I still couldn't name a Kanye West song though.

[Pitty]

But that's the point he's making; transcending your own bubble and being widely known by people who have no interest in your music.

I could sit here and reel off plenty of songs by a band like Abba, and I fucking hate Abba with a passion. Same goes for acts like the Bee Gees, U2 and Madonna; I would love to not know any of their music but its ingrained from a time when you didn't have a hell of a lot of choice of listening material. I still couldn't name a Kanye West song though.

Again, Kanye West has been around for 7 years, after you're 30+ years old. All of those bands have 10+ albums, Greatest Hits, etc. etc. I'm basing my argument partially on hypothetical, but Kanye West's success up to this point (an artist with all top debuting Billboard albums, sans his debut, and over a dozen top 10 hits only 7 years into his career) shows nothing to indicate he won't have a lasting legacy 40 years down the road.

For example, I fucking hate Britney Spears, NSYNC and the Backstreet Boys, but I know who they are because I was 7-13 when they were popular (pop music tends to be more well known by people who grew up with it generationally), just as I'm sure you listened to a lot of bad popular music when you were a kid.

You don't think kids today know Kanye West's hits? It's all relative, and to make a further point, since you two seem to place an important emphasis on an artist's "hits". Kanye West has 14 top 10 Billboard hits, Britney Spears, 13.

[Warner2BruceTD]

I'm not putting an emphasis on hits, you are.

None of those Kanye statistics mean anything in terms of lasting popularity. I contend he's making fad music that doesn't extend beyond fans of his genre. Spears made fad music that did. She was a cultural icon before she went down the trailor trash road. West never was, and for cultural reasons already explained, I don't think he ever will be. The way we consume music now, people aren't force fed what they don't like. It hurts the lasting impact of pop stars like West.

[Pitty]

I'm not putting an emphasis on hits, you are.

None of those Kanye statistics mean anything in terms of lasting popularity. I contend he's making fad music that doesn't extend beyond fans of his genre. Spears made fad music that did. She was a cultural icon before she went down the trailor trash road. West never was, and for cultural reasons already explained, I don't think he ever will be.

You explained that? All I've seen is you repeating the word 'bubble', which provides no evidence to substantiate this mouth diarrhea. How about when Kanye went on national television and criticized the President, and the subsequent months of uproar? Or when he hopped on stage and stole an award, causing months of uproar? Or how about when Kanye West was the sole joke of South Park, which is still quoted by morons a full two years later?

Remember when you said this?

Pop, and the most commercially successful genre today, rap/hip hop, is full of "here today, gone tommorow" drivel that people were embarrassed to admit they liked 6 months ago, let alone 40 years from now.

How then, does a Hip Hop artist manage to dominate the POP CHARTS for years? It's because your bubble argument is idiotic. In fact I think the most hilarious part in all of this is that you think music has no legacy today when it is made production-line style, while it was people like Britney fucking Spears who started it. Not many of Kanye's productions can be categorized as cookie cutter, in fact he's seen by many as a crossover genius combining hip hop with the genres it's never touched before.

[relaxedanderson]

Again, Kanye West has been around for 7 years, after you're 30+ years old. All of those bands have 10+ albums, Greatest Hits, etc. etc. I'm basing my argument partially on hypothetical, but Kanye West's success up to this point (an artist with all top debuting Billboard albums, sans his debut, and over a dozen top 10 hits only 7 years into his career) shows nothing to indicate he won't have a lasting legacy 40 years down the road.

Fair enough, but I could also say that back in 1996 I knew just about every song that Oasis had recorded up to that point and I would have sold my nipples to have an opportunity to wipe them from my brain.

For example, I fucking hate Britney Spears, NSYNC and the Backstreet Boys, but I know who they are because I was 7-13 when they were popular (pop music tends to be more well known by people who grew up with it generationally), just as I'm sure you listened to a lot of bad popular music when you were a kid.

You don't think kids today know Kanye West's hits? It's all relative, and to make a further point, since you two seem to place an important emphasis on an artist's "hits". Kanye West has 14 top 10 Billboard hits, Britney Spears, 13.

Ok, so relatively new artist at the peak of his career...which means he still has to go through this scenario http://www.virtualsportsdaily.com/fo...9&postcount=45

Popular music history is littered with people who were the business at the time but who are now permanent figures of fun. Whether his music stands the test of time is yet to be seen but I will say that his constant acting like a twat isn't going to serve him very well when he is about as fashionable as a tight perm and leg-warmers.