Low Winter Sun - AMC Show coming August 11th, Starring Mark Strong and Lennie James

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

That doesn't excuse the shows they have gotten and totally let go to shit like TWD and The Killing.

The only shows they don't exercise creative influence over are Mad Men and Breaking Bad and low and behold they are what keeps the lights on in the original programming department at AMC.

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The Walking Dead gets pretty impressive ratings. While, I am not a fan of the show...its got a following that's pretty huge, so I won't hate on The Walking Dead.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I never have. But you know certain viewers or reviewers give their new shows the benefit of the doubt because their first two shows were runaway smash hits and TWD is a commercial (if not critical) success.

HBO gets a similar leeway...as does FX.

[NAHSTE]

HBO gets a similar leeway...as does FX.

No doubt. HBO has some definite turds in their long run, bound to have some misses when you have that many attempts. FX has had some commercial flops (Terriers, Lights Out) but their creative consistency is pretty noteworthy for both comedy and drama. I maintain that AMC had two no-doubt HOF prestige dramas in their first two attempts, and has followed it up with a run of disappointments. TWD does bigger numbers than Breaking Bad or Game of Thrones it seems, but it's creative direction leaves a lot to be desired. And the rest of AMC's offerings have been both critical and commercial disappointments.

[Glenbino]

The Walking Dead gets pretty impressive ratings. While, I am not a fan of the show...its got a following that's pretty huge, so I won't hate on The Walking Dead.

So does every sitcom on CBS.

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[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

No doubt. HBO has some definite turds in their long run, bound to have some misses when you have that many attempts. FX has had some commercial flops (Terriers, Lights Out) but their creative consistency is pretty noteworthy for both comedy and drama. I maintain that AMC had two no-doubt HOF prestige dramas in their first two attempts, and has followed it up with a run of disappointments. TWD does bigger numbers than Breaking Bad or Game of Thrones it seems, but it's creative direction leaves a lot to be desired. And the rest of AMC's offerings have been both critical and commercial disappointments.

I don't disagree...and Breaking Bad, I know, kind of fell into their lap, as HBO, Sho, FX, and TNT passed on it before AMC took a chance on it...and, as I said before, I won't hate on The Walking Dead...its ok to have commercial success without it being critical faire. TWD is a bit of a hatewatch for me, but I won't knock AMC for it, and will actually put it on their mantle as a successful piece.

What shows has AMC flopped on...Rubicon, The Killing, and Hell of Wheels???...two of which haven't even ended yet (although, Hell of Wheels being moved to Saturday is a usual death blow, the idea they are saying that they have a strong audience on Saturday during the day for their Western movies is worth a shot if the alternative is death for the show). The Killing gets the lowest ratings on the network, but what they do get, is a consistent following for the show. I don't like it, but whatever.

I will say this about Low Winter Sun...they didn't give you a chance to not watch...they went from Breaking Bad ending to 30 seconds later this show starting, and not going to commercial for 15+ minutes before they showed you the preview for next week's Breaking Bad...at that point, you were like "fuck it, I'll stick with it"

[Buzzman]

As long as AMC has The Walking Dead they'll be fine but its got to be scary for them that everything else they put out is just completely lackluster. Like is there anyone who is clamoring over Hell on Wheels? or The Killing? or there few reality shows?

I think HBO and FX get the benefit of the doubt because they have already established themselves with a history of proven dramas. HBO specifically is a network that is great because even if the show struggles with ratings or creatively, they rarely pull the rug out. They give the show the time to try and get better or build a bigger audience, even if it winds up losing money for them. That's why i don't mind a show like True Blood, that should be off air by now, but it gives them the revenue to take risks and explore material most channels run away from. FX follows this process to an extent, but sometimes they just have to pull the plug due to ratings (Terriers). With AMC, they don't have that track record. The shows they decide to invest in have been duds and forgettable shows nobody will remember a few years from now. The Walking Dead is a very nice luxury for them to have, but if they don;t take advantage of its revenue and start making better decisions, that will be the only thing they have. We've all heard the stories behind AMC and the troubles show-runners have had with them on multiple shows. Something obviously needs to change because there other shows just aren't good enough. Larry said that they get the last pickings on the totem pole for shows, but that doesn't mean they can't develop something themselves and start making things in-house. Just look at their sister channel Sundance, going out and snatching up Top of the Lake and Rectify, two great watches.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

As long as AMC has The Walking Dead they'll be fine but its got to be scary for them that everything else they put out is just completely lackluster. Like is there anyone who is clamoring over Hell on Wheels? or The Killing? or there few reality shows?

I think HBO and FX get the benefit of the doubt because they have already established themselves with a history of proven dramas. HBO specifically is a network that is great because even if the show struggles with ratings or creatively, they rarely pull the rug out. They give the show the time to try and get better or build a bigger audience, even if it winds up losing money for them. That's why i don't mind a show like True Blood, that should be off air by now, but it gives them the revenue to take risks and explore material most channels run away from. FX follows this process to an extent, but sometimes they just have to pull the plug due to ratings (Terriers). With AMC, they don't have that track record. The shows they decide to invest in have been duds and forgettable shows nobody will remember a few years from now. The Walking Dead is a very nice luxury for them to have, but if they don;t take advantage of its revenue and start making better decisions, that will be the only thing they have. We've all heard the stories behind AMC and the troubles show-runners have had with them on multiple shows. Something obviously needs to change because there other shows just aren't good enough. Larry said that they get the last pickings on the totem pole for shows, but that doesn't mean they can't develop something themselves and start making things in-house. Just look at their sister channel Sundance, going out and snatching up Top of the Lake and Rectify, two great watches.

To be totally fair...AMC has really only had one complete flop...Rubicon. And, even Rubicon got some love from critics.

[Atlas]

i like hell on wheels and i liked what i saw last night from LWS...

[Glenbino]

To be totally fair...AMC has really only had one complete flop...Rubicon. And, even Rubicon got some love from critics.

I feel like AMC has been totally responsible for the way that The Killing and TWD have gone off the rails.

They exteneded The Killing for a second season when it really didn't have the structure to support it and TWD has been a mess since they slashed the budget after the Mad Men pay raises.

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[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I feel like AMC has been totally responsible for the way that The Killing and TWD have gone off the rails.

They exteneded The Killing for a second season when it really didn't have the structure to support it and TWD has been a mess since they slashed the budget after the Mad Men pay raises.

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To be fair, I strongly dislike The Walking Dead. However, Season 3 Parts 1 and 2 were much better than Season 1 and 2, IMO. It still sucked, but sucked less.

[Buzzman]

Its weird since I'm in the minority, but I thought the shows best stretch was part of season 2. The third season was just a total mess to me because the show had to focus on two separate story-lines with the prison and the town. The town didn't provide a single enjoyable character in 16 episodes except for Merle. This is a show that I feel should just be so much better, but the care AMC seems to handle it with is shit. They get their ratings and they know they'll get them no matter what, so they find every possible way to cut corners and make money. Which I would be fine with if they took that money and made so other worthwhile shows. I'll be real curious to see what they start doing once Mad Men comes off the air and they have no shows left and all that money they had in Mad Men now open up to make other things.

[Glenbino]

The thing I liked about season one is that the group was actually on the move for the most part of the season.

The worst thing about the farm/prison/Woodbury is spending 15+ hours on the same set for the season.

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[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

The thing I liked about season one is that the group was actually on the move for the most part of the season.

The worst thing about the farm/prison/Woodbury is spending 15+ hours on the same set for the season.

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Fair enough.

Season 1 and 2 was full of stupid people doing stupid things to create drama. It annoyed the hell out of me. They cut back on that concept a lot in Season 3. It still sucked, but annoyed me far less.

[tigstah]

I don't disagree...and Breaking Bad, I know, kind of fell into their lap, as HBO, Sho, FX, and TNT passed on it before AMC took a chance on it...and, as I said before, I won't hate on The Walking Dead...its ok to have commercial success without it being critical faire. TWD is a bit of a hatewatch for me, but I won't knock AMC for it, and will actually put it on their mantle as a successful piece.

What shows has AMC flopped on...Rubicon, The Killing, and Hell of Wheels???...two of which haven't even ended yet (although, Hell of Wheels being moved to Saturday is a usual death blow, the idea they are saying that they have a strong audience on Saturday during the day for their Western movies is worth a shot if the alternative is death for the show). The Killing gets the lowest ratings on the network, but what they do get, is a consistent following for the show. I don't like it, but whatever.

I will say this about Low Winter Sun...they didn't give you a chance to not watch...they went from Breaking Bad ending to 30 seconds later this show starting, and not going to commercial for 15+ minutes before they showed you the preview for next week's Breaking Bad...at that point, you were like "fuck it, I'll stick with it"

that 1st commercial break was 30 minutes in. i was like wtf, i want to see next weeks breaking bad....come on.

[Villain]

Meh, I thought that first episode was fine. It reminds me of The Shield.