Larkin enshrined in Cooperstown!

[FedEx227]

[dell71]

I'm going to need voting rights from all 4 Bill Mueller voters.

Tony Womack too.

Probably Boston homers. He won't even be on the ballot next year so no harm, no foul.

[Warner2BruceTD]

I'm going to need voting rights from all 4 Bill Mueller voters.

Tony Womack too.

Pedro Gomez voted for Bill Mueller, so he's one of the four.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/hof12/story/_/id/7435492/mlb-barry-larkin-elected-espn-2012-baseball-hall-fame-ballot

Yes, PEDRO GOMEZ has a HOF vote, which is baffling enough.

[FedEx227]

I get the whole "well they are doing it for their friends" "token vote" stuff. But for a group of people that can't be bothered to look at numbers it seems really silly that they have time to get votes in for their buds. It's not a major problem with the HOF voting probably Problem #1,012 but still...

[FedEx227]

Can anyone also explain why THIS guy was unable to stay on the ballot?

.276/.363/.426, 17 HR, 73 RBI, 69.7 WAR, 116 OPS+

Yet in his second year Larkin (.295/.371/.444, 15 HR, 71 RBI, 68.9 WAR, 116 OPS+) was able to make it.

The stat line above is Lou Whitaker.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Can anyone also explain why THIS guy was unable to stay on the ballot?

.276/.363/.426, 17 HR, 73 RBI, 69.7 WAR, 116 OPS+

Yet in his second year Larkin (.295/.371/.444, 15 HR, 71 RBI, 68.9 WAR, 116 OPS+) was able to make it.

The stat line above is Lou Whitaker.

This, from Whitaker's BR adspace:

Roberto Alomar: 2320 g at 2B, 116 OPS+, 63.5 WAR, 7 teams. Famous misdeed: Spat at umpire. Result: 2nd-ballot HOFer. Sweet Lou: 2308 g at 2B, 116 OPS+, 69.7 WAR, 1 team. Famous misdeed: Forgot uniform at 1985 ASG. Result: 2.9% of HOF vote. Go figure...

I think Larkin and Alomar are better players than Whitaker, but the fact he received something like a half dozen votes and was gone from the ballot forever is a fucking joke.

[FedEx227]

Both are better, but no reason they should've been 2nd and 3rd ballot HOF while Lou falls off the ballot.

Insanity.

[dell71]

Can anyone also explain why THIS guy was unable to stay on the ballot?

.276/.363/.426, 17 HR, 73 RBI, 69.7 WAR, 116 OPS+

Yet in his second year Larkin (.295/.371/.444, 15 HR, 71 RBI, 68.9 WAR, 116 OPS+) was able to make it.

The stat line above is Lou Whitaker.

For starters, Larkin is widely considered among the 5-10 best players of all time at his position (same for Alomar to use another 2B) while Whitaker is not. Another reason is that Whitaker's time on the ballot came before there was a big push to really use metrics to evaluate players. At that time it was something only a few did. Looking at OBP and possibly SLG is as advanced as it got. NO ONE with a vote looked at WAR, OPS+ or even OPS as a way to measure performance. So if you're counting numbers don't look Hall-worthy at first glance that was it unless you had the aura and flash of Ozzie Smith which Whitaker did not. Who did? Had Bagwell hit the ballot back when Whitaker did, I wouldn't be surprised to see him suffer the same fate.

I agree that Whitaker deserved far more consideration than he received but we're really comparing apples & oranges. A better comparison would be why Trammell, a fellow SS receives so little support. Both of those guys are underappreciated, imho.

[Warner2BruceTD]

For starters, Larkin is widely considered among the 5-10 best players of all time at his position (same for Alomar to use another 2B) while Whitaker is not. Another reason is that Whitaker's time on the ballot came before there was a big push to really use metrics to evaluate players. At that time it was something only a few did. Looking at OBP and possibly SLG is as advanced as it got. NO ONE with a vote looked at WAR, OPS+ or even OPS as a way to measure performance. So if you're counting numbers don't look Hall-worthy at first glance that was it unless you had the aura and flash of Ozzie Smith which Whitaker did not. Who did? Had Bagwell hit the ballot back when Whitaker did, I wouldn't be surprised to see him suffer the same fate.

I agree that Whitaker deserved far more consideration than he received but we're really comparing apples & oranges. A better comparison would be why Trammell, a fellow SS receives so little support. Both of those guys are underappreciated, imho.

I agree with all of this except for the Bagwell thought.

I think Bagwell would have been a first ballot lock if not for steroid suspicions.

[nflman2033]

I knew that Larkin won 9 Silver Slugger awards, but i heard on MLBnetwork today that the only Infielder who has won more is A-Rod

[FedEx227]

For starters, Larkin is widely considered among the 5-10 best players of all time at his position (same for Alomar to use another 2B) while Whitaker is not. Another reason is that Whitaker's time on the ballot came before there was a big push to really use metrics to evaluate players. At that time it was something only a few did. Looking at OBP and possibly SLG is as advanced as it got. NO ONE with a vote looked at WAR, OPS+ or even OPS as a way to measure performance. So if you're counting numbers don't look Hall-worthy at first glance that was it unless you had the aura and flash of Ozzie Smith which Whitaker did not. Who did? Had Bagwell hit the ballot back when Whitaker did, I wouldn't be surprised to see him suffer the same fate.

I agree that Whitaker deserved far more consideration than he received but we're really comparing apples & oranges. A better comparison would be why Trammell, a fellow SS receives so little support. Both of those guys are underappreciated, imho.

I just really don't like the positional standards for Hall of Fame. If there are 20 deserving second basemen then so be it. I don't see why being at a position that has more elite players makes you not worthy? He didn't play against Honus Wagner so why should that count against him?

I get your point completely and that comes from different ideas of what Hall of Fame standards are. But to punish and reward for the all-time depth of a position just seems beyond silly to me.

[Pills]

I know he's on the Mitchell Report, but I'm actually astounded that Juan Gone is officially off the ballot. While I don't think he'd make it, I thought he'd be Mattingly-esque in the voting.

Looks like Bags will make it in a few years (maybe 2016, after a lot of the big names go), and Raines may go around then, too.

ETA: Looking at the voting, Morris is up 13.2%. It's possible he goes next year, or makes it in year 15. Bags was up 14.3%, and Raines 13.2%. Of course, this is a very weak year. It may just be that Morris goes with the Vets committee.