Bobby V: Ortiz benched himself; Bogar responds

[Guest]

Former Boston Red Sox manager Bobby Valentine on Tuesday said slugger David Ortiz sidelined himself after a brief return from an Achilles injury -- not because of soreness but because the team made a blockbuster deal that sealed their playoff fate.

Ortiz was on the disabled list from July 18 to late August with a strained right Achilles. He went 2 for 4 with two RBIs in a one-game return Aug. 24. The next day, the trade that sent Adrian Gonzalez, Josh Beckett, Carl Crawford and Nick Punto to the Los Angeles Dodgers was made official.

The Red Sox were 60-66 on Aug. 24, 13½ games behind the Yankees in the AL East and 8½ games out of a wild-card spot.

"He realized that this trade meant that we're not going to run this race and we're not even going to finish the race properly and he decided not to play anymore," Valentine said in an interview airing Tuesday night on "Costas Tonight" on NBC Sports Network. "I think at that time it was all downhill from there."

Ortiz returned to the disabled list on Aug. 27 and never came off it.

Red Sox general manager Ben Cherington vehemently denied the former manager's accusation when reached by ESPNBoston.com for comment Tuesday night.

"I wouldn't be trying to re-sign him if I had any concern about David's commitment to baseball or to the Red Sox," Cherington said. "During a trying year, David was a leader for us on and off the field. Unfortunately, an Achilles injury cut his season short. It was a tough break in a season full of tough breaks for us."

The Red Sox and Ortiz are closing in on a two-year contract extension that could be finalized in the next week, according to a baseball source.

http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/...elined-himself

Thoughts? Considering some Ortiz comments and actions from 2011, some version of this wouldn't surprise me. However, how much of this was because lost the team, and it being inevitable he would be fired?

[Villain]

He's like herpes. Go the fuck away, no one likes you Bobby.

[s@ppisgod]

Bobby V is the biggest douche ever associated with baseball. He makes Jose Canseco look like a nice, level-headed guy by comparison. I'd rather hear Ty Cobb have a conversation consisting entirely of N-bombs than hear what Valentine ever has to say about anything.

Oddly enough, I'd probably agree about Ortiz. But the way he went about it and the timing is classic douchy Bobby.

[NAHSTE]

Wouldn't be shocked if it's true. Seemed like he was announced as being "within days" from coming back for about 2 straight weeks, and then all of a sudden he shut it down. Probably just said "fuck it" and it's not like I can blame him. Awful team, unlikable manager, and he's only got a few more years left. Might as well save your energy and take your time getting fully back.

Pretty bush for Bobby V to say this publicly either way.

[Senser81]

Fired sports coaches/managers are pretty awesome, because usually they are so egotistical they can't accept any responsibility. Valentine reminds me of the football coach that goes 2-14, gets fired, then complains that the reason he was fired was because a defensive player took a play off in Week 14.

I don't understand Valentine's comment "I think at that time it was all downhill from there." Was he saying thats what Ortiz was thinking? Or was that Valentine's own comment on the situation?

[FirstTimer]

Fired sports coaches/managers are pretty awesome, because usually they are so egotistical they can't accept any responsibility. Valentine reminds me of the football coach that goes 2-14, gets fired, then complains that the reason he was fired was because a defensive player took a play off in Week 14.

I don't understand Valentine's comment "I think at that time it was all downhill from there." Was he saying thats what Ortiz was thinking? Or was that Valentine's own comment on the situation?

To Valentine's credit(somewhat) he said int he interview he takes full responsibility for what happened.

[Guest]

Now this I hate. Don't drag other names through the mud, because even though it is and every executive knows this situation sucked, Bogar does start behind anyone else when he goes to interview for other jobs now.

BOSTON -- Boston Red Sox bench coach Tim Bogar shot back Wednesday at former manager Bobby Valentine's contention that he felt undermined by his coaching staff this past season, and Bogar also offered his perspective on the team's dismal 2012.

"I'm not upset about him or anything he says, but what bothers me is the perception of me and the other coaches is completely wrong," he told ESPNBoston.com. "That bothers me because of what the coaches went through this year and what we dealt with. I did exactly what (general manager) Ben (Cherington) asked me to do. I'm not saying I did everything perfect because I didn't and I know that."

Valentine has not been shy about criticizing his coaches. In the final week of the season, Valentine said during a radio interview that he felt his coaching staff was not loyal to him. On Tuesday, the same day the Red Sox introduced John Farrell as their next manager, Valentine appeared on the "Costas Tonight" program on NBC Sports Network and was again critical of the coaching staff, saying, "I should have made sure the coaches were my guys."

Bogar's comments Wednesday were the first from any of his former coaching staff since Valentine's latest remarks.

Bogar was a holdover from ex-manager Terry Francona's staff, serving as first-base coach in 2009 and third-base coach in 2010-11. He was promoted to Sox bench coach under Valentine, who approved the move.

"The coaching staff was prepared to do everything that we were supposed to do to help Bobby succeed," Bogar said, "but not once did he portray what he wanted us to do to help him and eventually he shut some of us out completely."

Valentine mentioned many times during the season that there were breakdowns in communication. Cherington and ownership admitted as much, too.

When asked to comment more about the coaching situation, Cherington said Wednesday in an email response to ESPNBoston.com: "I think I've said enough about 2012."

Attempts to contact Valentine for comment for this story were unsuccessful.

Bogar said Wednesday that he kept working hard and remained professional throughout the season.

"I did my best, along with all the other coaches, to keep everyone on track," Bogar said. "Some things are public, some will stay private, but no one will truly understand what had to be handled behind those clubhouse doors. Being professional in these matters is the only way to go about it."

Bogar said Wednesday he felt he had a great rapport with the Red Sox players.

"You don't know how many times these guys would come and talk to me about stuff," Bogar said. "The last couple of times I've read stuff about that there was no communication or the communication was bad -- the only bad communication was between Bobby and everyone. The rest of the communication was great. I talked to the players daily about stuff. We talked about everything. The coaches talked about everything."

According to numerous team sources, Valentine resented the fact that the players often spoke with the coaching staff and not directly with him.

In the final week of the season, Cherington admitted he had many conversations with Valentine and the coaching staff during the season in an attempt to fix the issues that existed.

"We spent a lot of time communicating about what was going on and how it was being handled," Bogar said.

During the interview with Costas, Valentine addressed some of the situations that became public, including the spring training incident with shortstop Mike Aviles in which numerous Red Sox personnel said the manager belittled the veteran shortstop. Valentine also said that veteran designated hitter David Ortiz, who played only one game after a July 16 injury to his Achilles, decided to "not play anymore" after the team made the nine-player trade that sent pitcher Josh Beckett, first baseman Adrian Gonzalez, outfielder Carl Crawford and infielder Nick Punto to the Los Angeles Dodgers on Aug. 25.

Ortiz has yet to comment on Valentine's remarks -- he's on the verge of re-signing for two years -- but others want to set the record straight as far as how Bogar and the coaching staff dealt with all the issues this season.

"To me, Bogey was that calming voice that was always thinking baseball," Red Sox second baseman Dustin Pedroia told ESPNBoston.com on Wednesday. "He was trying to put us in the best situation to succeed, whether that was baserunning, defensive positioning or just mentioning to calm down at the plate. And his timing was always right on. He's a very smart, no-nonsense guy, which you appreciate."

Aviles, recently traded to the Toronto Blue Jays as compensation for Farrell, credited Bogar with helping him develop as a shortstop.

"I think Bogey did a tremendous job," Aviles said Wednesday. "I have a great relationship with Bogey, and it started when I first came over (in 2011). He was a big reason for me taking that step forward and becoming a pretty decent shortstop."

Aviles explained that Bogar helped him both on and off the field during his time in Boston.

"When I would have a question, I would go to Bogey," Aviles said. "He knew me as a person and as a player and knew how to talk to me. He knew how to calm me down sometimes when I got a little too upset. He's one of those guys who has great communication skills and he was always ready to work.

"During the tough times, Bogey was definitely the bridge. He was able to talk to Bobby, and Bobby was able to talk to him, and vice-versa with the players. Bogey was a great bridge communicating to both sides because he understood Bobby the best. Bobby was here only one year, so nobody really understood him or knew him. No one had that long relationship, and it was tough for Bobby, but Bogey knew him from his playing days. And Bogey knew the players and was able to communicate and be the bridge to have things run a little bit smoother than normal."

The Red Sox coaching staff under Farrell is being established. Sources told ESPNBoston.com that Torey Lovullo, who was the first-base coach in Toronto with Farrell and also the manager at Triple-A Pawtucket in 2010, will be named Red Sox bench coach.

Bogar recently turned down a job as bench coach of the Houston Astros. There's a chance he could remain with the Red Sox in some capacity. He previously worked with Farrell in Boston when Farrell was Francona's pitching coach before leaving to manage the Jays starting in the 2011 season.

"You're supposed to do what's professional, and I did," Bogar said. "Now, whenever I get called for another job, the first thing they ask is, 'So what's the deal with what happened between you and Bobby and why would he say you undermined him?' So I have to explain myself.

"I don't think my reputation and what I've done in this game is being fairly justified by what has gone on here the last year."

http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/...ed-sox-coaches

[dave]

Last time I checked Ortiz won more World Series rings than Bobby Valentine.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Bogar is a loser. He was the unnamed coach who was leaking shit to the press all year long.

I'm going to take the other side here. Yes, Valentine is a douche. But the behavior of the players, and especially the behavior of Bogar, had just as much to do with the trainwreck that was the Red Sox as Valentine did.

The bottom line is Valentine was undermined. By Bogar, and by some of the players. I have no issue with Valentine exposing the laundry on these guys now, because they were talking shit to the media all year long and did the same thing to him.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Also, shame on Cherrington for forcing a lot of the old staff on Valentine to begin with. Valentine should have had full control of his staff, but Cherrington basically strong armed him into some of these coaches.

Valentine has never been a players manager, so they should have known he would rock the boat (and he did). That's who they were hiring. By keeping the old staff on board, Cherrington was giving the players that link to the past and that's a bad idea.

If Cherrington likes Bogar so much, he had two chances to give him the manager job. Bogar should have been out the door with Francona if the idea was to change the culture.

[dave]

What has Valentine done to be holier than thou here?
Seriously.
The Red Sox admittedly have sucked the past two seasons, but they had a winning tradition during the 2000s and suddenly Valentine is a genius and the entire Red Sox nation is stupid?

Valentine has won nothing.

Valentine airing dirty laundry now is just stupid and petty. He will never get another MLB job thanks to this, but the Red Sox will move on.

Valentine should just STFU and move on. Instead he's just making excuses for a 69-win season.

I am not, for a second, saying Valentine is entirely at fault for that ... but it's a bit rich for him to blame everyone but himself.

[MVPete]

Also, shame on Cherrington for forcing a lot of the old staff on Valentine to begin with. Valentine should have had full control of his staff, but Cherrington basically strong armed him into some of these coaches.

Valentine has never been a players manager, so they should have known he would rock the boat (and he did). That's who they were hiring. By keeping the old staff on board, Cherrington was giving the players that link to the past and that's a bad idea.

If Cherrington likes Bogar so much, he had two chances to give him the manager job. Bogar should have been out the door with Francona if the idea was to change the culture.

Finally gave him the boot.

http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/8552514/boston-red-sox-inform-tim-bogar-bench-coach

[Mogriffjr]

this was going to be a train wreck from the start and I believe many knew this...

Valentine works better with younger guys, not guys with an ego...a team like Baltimore, I feel he could have done better with than a veteran group, especially these batch of players who just ran off francona...just maybe...it's the players!???