Anyone losing faith in Theo Epstein and the Cubs?

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  • Senser81
    VSN Poster of the Year
    • Feb 2009
    • 12804

    Anyone losing faith in Theo Epstein and the Cubs?

    I'm starting to think there isn't going to be a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow for the Cubs. Kind of like how the Bulls and Jerry Krause were in the perpetual "rebuilding" mode post MJ. Thoughts:


    *I didn't buy into the Epstein model from the start...when its so easy just to sign good players in the MLB, why would a top-money team like the Cubs undergo a total transformation? Use the farm system as a means to develop trade bait, sign established veterans, win games. Even Hendry could follow that plan. The big issue facing Epstein was clearing the bad long-term contracts that Hendry signed, not the establishment of a better farm system, IMO.

    *Here is my quick thought on the Moneyball system...get some decent players who aren't great athletes but who can hit...give them PEDs so they can perform at a superstar level...win games. Happened in Oakland. Happened in Boston with Epstein. I guess I don't think the approach is entirely revolutionary if its somewhat dependent on PEDs.

    *Don't know if its Epstein, but there is a lot of "misdirection" with the Cubs now. So much being made about revenue sources, events being held at Wrigley, etc. Instead of talking about the shoddy on-field product, we are bombarded with stories about the financial situation. The strange thing is that some in the sports media are actually buying into this...idiotic sports radio hosts are saying that this is "great progress" and that he's impressed with Cubs organization for hosting college baseball games at Wrigley and the like. Huh? What does that have to do with baseball? If anything, it should be a warning sign that the Ricketts are either a) too poor to actually be running an MLB team, or b) are mostly interested in the profit margin.

    *Too many odd or, more often, insignificant roster moves being explained in a 3-year timeline...as in "we didn't see him contributing to the team 3 years from now, when we will be contending". I find this type of thinking to be self-defeating. People think Epstein was a big departure from the "loser" Cubs atmospheres of the past, yet he's created a situation where losing is most acceptable.

    *Pitching addition through subtraction...Cubs starting rotation was terrible last year. Will it be any better this year? Doubtful. Too much is expected from Jeff Samardzija.

    *Team still has way too many holes. The few good young players appear to be above-average, but not elite. I don't see anyone this team can build around. Starlin Castro is nice to have at SS, but is he really a great player? Not really. Can Samardzija be a good #1 starter? No. Is Anthony Rizzo an elite player? Jury is still out, IMO.
  • Hasselbeck
    Jus' bout dat action boss
    • Feb 2009
    • 6175

    #2
    Who had faith in the Cubs to begin with?
    Originally posted by ram29jackson
    I already said months ago that Seattle wasn't winning any SB

    Comment

    • FedEx227
      Delivers
      • Mar 2009
      • 10454

      #3
      The entire point of it was clearing all the bad contracts, create a more profitable team and build up a farm system to give you cost-effective talent down the road. I think they are doing a great job if that was the plan.
      VoicesofWrestling.com

      Comment

      • Jayrock
        mini MJ
        • Apr 2012
        • 1828

        #4
        LOL at this shit. Did you see the situation the Cubs were in when Hendry was fired? Hoyer/Epstein have us light years ahead. Our farm system, recently thought of as the worst in baseball, is now top 5 or 10...maybe not all top level prospects, but very deep. Meanwhile, the Cubs have put together a decent product for this season, probably winning 75ish games... fangraphs has us at 78, that's pretty reasonable. There's a small chance at getting to .500 or even being a surprise team with a lot of guys on the last year of their deals playing for a new contract.

        The real problem here is Ricketts. Pumping in project worth a couple hundred million bucks to renovate Wrigley is going to force the payroll down over the next few seasons... there's simply no way to pay for these renovations without reducing payroll because Chicago won't likely help that much.

        The Cubs have a real future ahead... there's improvement in the bullpen, we have Baez and Soler waiting to take over two spots, Castro/Barney/Rizzo already holding down spots in the infield longterm...outside of a real huge need of top end starters (right now the plan is Samardizja *mj.gif*), there is actually a light at the end of the tunnel for Cubs fans.

        Comment

        • Jayrock
          mini MJ
          • Apr 2012
          • 1828

          #5
          That said, 2013 is our year and we're winning it all.

          This year is here.

          Comment

          • JimLeavy59
            War Hero
            • May 2012
            • 7199

            #6
            I find it odd that a baseball team in Milwaukee is more relevant than the Cubs.

            Comment

            • Primetime
              Thank You Prince
              • Nov 2008
              • 17526

              #7
              Originally posted by JimLeavy59
              I find it odd that a baseball team in Milwaukee is more relevant than the Cubs.
              Do you find it odd that Green Bay has a more relevant team than 90% of the NFL also?

              Comment

              • FedEx227
                Delivers
                • Mar 2009
                • 10454

                #8
                Originally posted by Jayrock
                That said, 2013 is our year and we're winning it all.

                This year is here.
                Exhibit A: Why Most Other Fanbases Can't Stand The Cubs
                VoicesofWrestling.com

                Comment

                • JimLeavy59
                  War Hero
                  • May 2012
                  • 7199

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Primetime
                  Do you find it odd that Green Bay has a more relevant team than 90% of the NFL also?
                  Thats a big different though, the Packers have history and great management. The Brewers have....?

                  Comment

                  • ryne candy
                    Aggie C/O '01
                    • Feb 2009
                    • 4355

                    #10
                    Going to miss them coming to Houston (get to see them this preseason in Houston). The wife wants me to root for the Stros now that they are in the AL.

                    Comment

                    • Yawkey Way
                      Free World Leader
                      • Oct 2008
                      • 6731

                      #11
                      Epstein gets a lot of credit in Boston for taking over and winning almost immediately, but the moves he made were not so much retooling the farm system as they were making great 2nd-tier free agent signings. Most of the players he used to trade for Curt Schilling/Josh Beckett/Mike Lowell were drafted by Dan Duquette, not Epstein. Theo then signed players like Millar/Mueller and made the Nomar trade, so take it for what it's worth.

                      Obviously, Theo also drafted the likes of Pedroia, Ellsbury, Papelbon and surrounded the 2004 talent with youth, making the 2007 run possible. So I don't think you should be so quick to write Epstein off, it does take a few years. He did strike gold almost immediately in Boston, which certainly helped his cause.

                      Comment

                      • Warner2BruceTD
                        2011 Poster Of The Year
                        • Mar 2009
                        • 26142

                        #12
                        I would have traded Castro, I think he's a flawed player with a bad attitude, but could have netted a real nice return. Then again, they may love Castro, and maybe I irrationally dislike the player.

                        Other than that, I think the Cubs are largely following the plan and doing a decent job.

                        Comment

                        • Goober
                          Needs a hobby
                          • Feb 2009
                          • 12271

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Warner2BruceTD
                          I would have traded Castro, I think he's a flawed player with a bad attitude, but could have netted a real nice return. Then again, they may love Castro, and maybe I irrationally dislike the player.

                          Other than that, I think the Cubs are largely following the plan and doing a decent job.
                          It's interesting that all the projection systems are high on Castro this season, but him flopping in '13 is just as likely as him taking the next step forward in my opinion.

                          The Cubs farm system would be in really nice shape if they wouldn't have made that terrible Garza trade.

                          Comment

                          • Cornelius
                            3rd place is you're fired
                            • Oct 2010
                            • 2377

                            #14
                            Originally posted by FedEx227
                            Exhibit A: Why Most Other Fanbases Can't Stand Chicago sports fans
                            FTFY

                            Comment

                            • FedEx227
                              Delivers
                              • Mar 2009
                              • 10454

                              #15
                              Are White Sox fans really that bad? We're like ungodly pessimistic dick-wads that put down our own team even if we're successful.

                              Totally got you on Bears, Bulls and Cubs though.
                              VoicesofWrestling.com

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