Park Factor in One Image

[jms493]

My older brother would play a lot of SOM Hockey. He would make me play him...didnt really know what I was doing. It was kind of fun.

[Warner2BruceTD]

My father had a Strat-O-Matic game that featured all hall of famers instead of the traditional "season" version. He kept meticulous stat sheets of his games in a gigantic notebook complete with "league leaders" and complete "career" numbers on every player. I remember Three Finger Brown being particularly dominant on the mound, with a sub 1.00 ERA.

Anyway, my mother sold the game in a yard sale. He went ballistic. I mean, the man worked seven days per week, and he had at least 15 years worth of game records compiled in that thing. It was one of his few leisure activities. Wouldn't be shocked if it was one of the many factors involved in the divorce.

[NAHSTE]

Anyway, my mother sold the game in a yard sale. He went ballistic. I mean, the man worked seven days per week, and he had at least 15 years worth of game records compiled in that thing. It was one of his few leisure activities. Wouldn't be shocked if it was one of the many factors involved in the divorce.

Unforgivable. And yet, they will never understand.

[NAHSTE]

Back on topic, I think the process behind a team building a new park and deciding on dimensions is fascinating. I know they must run a ton of statistical models before finalizing wall height and outfield size, but we've seen a handful of teams admit a few years in that they got things totally wrong. (Comerica, Safeco, Petco and Citi fences, the Marlins retractable roof which they learned they can almost never open.)

Some teams choose to live with it, but I wonder how much of how a park ends up playing is intentional and how much is guesswork.

[FedEx227]

The Twins essentially destroyed Mauer's power when they built Target Field. That's one of the most galling examples I can remember in recent years of not at least taking into consideration your current personnel. I know Wright had a lot of issues with Citi Field as well.

[Warner2BruceTD]

What a lot of people don't remember, is Jim Bowden wanted to move the right field fence IN at Great American after the first year, and the league told him to get lost.

The reason that power alley is so short, is Dunn & Griffey. I believe that fence hurt the Reds teams of that era more than it helped them. Bowden spent all of his resources on power hitters (particularly left handed power), leaving little for pitching. So you ended up with Elmer Dessens & Jimmy Haynes & Joey Hamilton & Danny Graves at the top of the rotation. It wasn't until Bowden was gone, and the GM's who followed focused on preventing home runs, that the franchise turned it around. Bowden was punting pitching and trying to win 9-8. That will never work.

[NAHSTE]

What a lot of people don't remember, is Jim Bowden wanted to move the right field fence IN at Great American after the first year, and the league told him to get lost.

The reason that power alley is so short, is Dunn & Griffey. I believe that fence hurt the Reds teams of that era more than it helped them. Bowden spent all of his resources on power hitters (particularly left handed power), leaving little for pitching. So you ended up with Elmer Dessens & Jimmy Haynes & Joey Hamilton & Danny Graves at the top of the rotation. It wasn't until Bowden was gone, and the GM's who followed focused on preventing home runs, that the franchise turned it around. Bowden was punting pitching and trying to win 9-8. That will never work.

Just found this on espn.com from 2003:

Bowden is also not solely responsible for the Griffey trade. A few years ago, Griffey was on his way to the Hall of Fame. Now, he'll be lucky to hit 500 home runs in his career. Heck, the Reds built the Great American Ballpark mostly to help Griffey break Hank Aaron's home run record. It's not Bowden's fault the Reds ended up with one of the most fragile players in recent memory.

edit, and this one from Yahoo from 2008, in a rather alarmistly titled "Ballpark could doom Reds in future" piece about Cueto and Volquez.

Since opening in 2001, the Reds’ park has been among baseball’s top launching pads. From 2005-07, Great American gave up the most homers (718) in the majors. Philadelphia’s Citizens Bank Park was second at 675. San Diego’s PETCO Park and Washington’s now-abandoned RFK Stadium allowed the fewest homers, with 402.

The Reds, according to a club official, have not considered changing the dimensions of the field. Unless the Reds want to pull out a huge hunk of seats—as the Philadelphia Phillies did in left field in 2006—there is no wiggle room at Great American Ball Park. The park is hemmed in by US Bank Arena beyond left field and the Ohio River behind right field.

One National League executive referred to games at Great American as “arena baseball.” According to former Cincinnati general manager Jim Bowden, Great American was not supposed to play this way.

“There wasn’t one person that said a little fly ball in right-center was gone, and every fly ball in left and in right down the line were gone,” said Bowden, now Washington’s general manager. “They did all the wind studies. Every single one was wrong.”

[Warner2BruceTD]

Future GM's traded Jose Guillen for Aaron Harang, Wily Mo Pena for Bronson Arroyo, Josh Hamilton for Edinson Volquez, and Yonder Alonso for Mat Latos. Post Bowden, the Reds also drafted or signed guys like Cueto, Homer Bailey, Mike Leake, Travis Wood, Aroldis Chapman, instead of the "all in" HR focus of Bowden. The Reds had to pitch well to win in that park. Not try to out bash.

In Seattle, they've tried to build on pitching, and even DEFENSE of all things, to combat the big park. The last two years, they've scrapped that, and traded pitching for hitting (Montero most notably), and signed a bunch of power hitters. Hasn't worked yet, but I bet it eventually will.

My point here, is teams that try too hard to play to their park tend to get burned. I'm talking systematic franchise philosophy here, not something like the Yankees making sure they've had a few lefty mashers over the years. Look at the Phillies, they won because they had dominant pitching, not because balls flew out to LF.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Why are you going to try to hit so many HR's in Cincy? You'll hit them anyway.

Why try so hard to stifle runs in Seattle? The park will do it for you.

[Senser81]

My point here, is teams that try too hard to play to their park tend to get burned. I'm talking systematic franchise philosophy here, not something like the Yankees making sure they've had a few lefty mashers over the years. Look at the Phillies, they won because they had dominant pitching, not because balls flew out to LF.

I remember the Astros and Cardinals playing to their park in the 1980's and having "big success". The homerdome Twins seemed to be playing to their park as well in the late 80's-early 90's.