Expanded rosters madness - Is it fair?

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  • Warner2BruceTD
    2011 Poster Of The Year
    • Mar 2009
    • 26142

    Expanded rosters madness - Is it fair?

    I like the concept of expanded rosters, because I think it's cool to take a look at key minor leaguers. But i'm always torn, because the games post September 1 often turn into a farce.

    Let's look at tonight's Reds/Cards game. This was a great game, easily the most exciting Reds game of the season. A tight 1-0 game with a playoff atmosphere, with two great pitching performances and some great defense.

    The lone & winning run was scored by September call up Billy Hamilton, who pinch ran for Ryan Ludwick, stole second base on the first pitch he saw, then scored on a Todd Frazier double. There is no way that Ludwick, who is slow to begin with, plus is running like shit these days because he's out of shape since recently coming off the DL, would have scored from first on that double. Two days ago, the Reds probably don't score that run.

    In the 8th inning, Mike Matheny got real wacky. The Reds brought LHP Manny Parra into the game to face a couple of left handed hitters, and Matheny countered with right handed pinch hitters for three consecutive batters. When the third batter (David Freese) walked, he pinch ran for him. In the bottom of the inning, Matheny used another player off of his bench to play 2B, because starter Kolten Wang was one of the three players he pinch hit for. He also made a pitching change. That's SIX total players burned off of his bench, in the span of three total outs.

    The Cardinals, who are notorious for using loaded rosters post 9/1, have added EIGHT players to the team since Sunday. This means Matheny not only didn't have to worry about burning so many players in a single inning of a one run game, but he also didn't need to have any regard for what positions those players play. For example, he currently has four catchers on his roster. He can pinch hit two catchers if he likes, and still have an emergency catcher in his back pocket. It didnt matter who he used t pinch hit vs Parra, as long as they were right handed, because he still had plenty of options to play 2B on his bench anyway.

    Even though Tony LaRussa was the most blatant abuser of this, i'm not just picking on the Cards. All teams do this shit post 9/1, and it gets to be pretty stupid in terms of the integrity of the game & strategy going to shit.

    So I propose this. Don't get rid of September call ups. The concept of that is fine, because technically MLB teams have 40 men on the roster and the minor league season is over. But what you can do, is only allow managers to use a total of 25 players per game, or, 12 total substitutions (including pitching changes). Either way would fall somewhat in line to how a pre-9/1 game is played. The Cardinals have 33 players on the team. Some teams have as many as 38! It's absurd.
  • Goober
    Needs a hobby
    • Feb 2009
    • 12271

    #2
    Every team has the option to call up players. If you choose not to, you have no one to blame but yourself. Don't be a bitch like Doug Melvin and complain about it.

    Comment

    • Senser81
      VSN Poster of the Year
      • Feb 2009
      • 12804

      #3
      I would take it a step further...after 9/1 teams that are out of playoff contention can combine rosters WWII-era style to make things more competitive. Cubs and White Sox combine teams to become the Chicago Cub Sox. It would then open up a team slot in the MLB, which can be filled by adding a Japanese League team. Teams that clinch postseason berths can stop playing, and instead use their AAA Minor League affiliate to finish out their schedule, thus resting their pitchers and reducing the chance of injury to position players.

      Comment

      • ThomasTomasz
        • Nov 2024

        #4
        I'd argue for something different. I'd say that teams under .500 at the beginning of the month can make the call for up to 40 players like it is now. For teams over .500, you can expand to 30, but that's it. It's beneficial to the teams who need to see what they have and expand the season for some of their minor-leaguers, while it also gives the winning teams some added flexibility but also still encourages some sort of strategy to keep winning.

        Comment

        • NAHSTE
          Probably owns the site
          • Feb 2009
          • 22233

          #5
          The other unintended consequence of the expanded rosters is the competitive integrity is compromised when playoff berths are decided based on which team gets to face the last place team trotting out minor leaguers to end the season. (See: 2011 St. Louis Cardinals)

          Comment

          • ThomasTomasz
            • Nov 2024

            #6
            Originally posted by NAHSTE
            The other unintended consequence of the expanded rosters is the competitive integrity is compromised when playoff berths are decided based on which team gets to face the last place team trotting out minor leaguers to end the season. (See: 2011 St. Louis Cardinals)
            I'd argue that the worst 10 teams getting protected picks in FA is worse, but I definitely see your point.

            Comment

            • NAHSTE
              Probably owns the site
              • Feb 2009
              • 22233

              #7
              Originally posted by ThomasTomasz
              I'd argue that the worst 10 teams getting protected picks in FA is worse, but I definitely see your point.
              Not that I minded facing Daisuke Matsuzaka yesterday.

              :tank:

              Comment

              • ThomasTomasz
                • Nov 2024

                #8
                Originally posted by NAHSTE
                Not that I minded facing Daisuke Matsuzaka yesterday.

                :tank:
                You getting Harang too?

                Comment

                • NAHSTE
                  Probably owns the site
                  • Feb 2009
                  • 22233

                  #9
                  Originally posted by ThomasTomasz
                  You getting Harang too?
                  Off tomorrow and Cliff Lee and Cole Hamels await this weekend.

                  Comment

                  • Woy
                    RIP West
                    • Dec 2008
                    • 16372

                    #10
                    Originally posted by NAHSTE
                    The other unintended consequence of the expanded rosters is the competitive integrity is compromised when playoff berths are decided based on which team gets to face the last place team trotting out minor leaguers to end the season. (See: 2011 St. Louis Cardinals)
                    Maybe it would have helped if the Braves won a game in that September three-game set against St. Louis? Even the last place team trotting out minor leaguers could do that in the last series of the season.



                    ^ Shouts to MvP for the sick sig. GFX TEAM BACK

                    .

                    Comment

                    • Garrett67
                      Glory Hole Monitor
                      • Feb 2009
                      • 4538

                      #11
                      Jim Leyland makes a good point.



                      BOSTON -- On the day the Tigers and Red Sox finalized their September callups, manager Jim Leyland was asked how the expanded roster affects his bullpen matchups. The result was a familiar refrain he has echoed over the years about the inequities of playoff races being decided with expanded rosters in the final month.
                      He has hated the practice for years.
                      "That's been one of my big quirks for a long time," Leyland said.
                      Leyland has long supported capping the number of available players for a contest. A team could have close to 40 players on its roster for September thanks to callups, but he would prefer a rule having them designate 28 to 30 active players for a given game.
                      It has been discussed, he said, but hasn't had enough support to become a rule.


                      "It doesn't make sense for me to play five months of baseball, and then the last month you change the rules," he said. "It makes no sense to me at all."
                      The result is a bevy of left- and right-handed hitters on the bench for several teams, and several left- and right-handed pitchers to bring in for a matchup. Thus, trying to bring in a lefty reliever for a lefty hitter who might be weak against southpaws is futile. The new challenge becomes the reverse.
                      "You don't get a matchup," he said. "You'd better hope that a righty can get a lefty out, or a lefty can get a righty out. Because in a lot of cases, you're not going to have any choice, so you pick your poison."


                      Comment

                      • Goober
                        Needs a hobby
                        • Feb 2009
                        • 12271

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Garrett67
                        Yes but Jim Leyland has severe brain damage from smoking to many cigarettes.

                        “I don’t believe in any of that stuff. I won’t listen to any of it and have no interest in talking about it. You can figure out whatever you want.

                        “My view of pitchers’ stats is this: Did he give us a chance to win? If he did that on any kind of consistent basis for me, then he’s a very good pitcher.

                        “But I also like guys that win. I’d rather have a pitcher nobody is talking about who has won 15 games than somebody everyone is raving about who has won five.

                        “I’m a baseball manager, not a statistician. I’m wasting my time talking about it. Any other questions?’



                        From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2e27pruZy

                        Comment

                        • Villain
                          [REDACTED]
                          • May 2011
                          • 7768

                          #13
                          The Dodgers started Edinson Volquez yesterday.

                          Did you see the rest of the line-up? all but 2 regs sat.
                          [REDACTED]

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