Manny test positive, suspended 50 games

[Prodigal Son]

Just another reason why Griffey is the best baseball player of the last 20 years. If he is ever caught using, baseball should be shut down.

I'm positive Griffey used. It's no coincidence that a lot of his injuries started to happen when he bulked up.

[mcstl25]

First, it really doesn't matter why Manny was using the drug, he should have known that HCG was on the banned substance list. It's a players responsibility to understand what is on the banned substance list and stay away from it.

I've heard that Manny was taking the drug because his wife was trying to get pregnant. Whether true or not, he should probably use this angle to deflect any thoughts that he was taking the drug to gain an edge.

In the end, the fact that many of the greatest baseball players of this era have been linked to steroids really doesn't bother me. If anyone to blame it's Major League Baseball for turning a blind eye to steroids for so many years.

Bottom line, with the amount of money involved in professional sports, players are always going to be looking for an edge. Testing still isn't available for HGH and several designer steroids, and players will continue to use them until there is a test. I think it's hypocritical for us to take the moral high road and judge the players because I guarantee that the majority of us would take a performance enhancing drug if was the difference of being a career minor league player or making millions in the majors.

[FirstTimer]

i can't help but respect the type of optimism you have towards the use of performance enhancers in sports but this isn't the first and i'm sure it won't be the last time that we see things completely opposite when it comes to steroids in baseball.(well, sports in general)

i'm sure you know i am a huge fan of baseball, and as a fan i want nothing more than to believe that the game was and still is clean. i don't feed on the drama and being a pessimist towards it isn't something i like to do, but it's just how i feel.

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. I wasn't being "optimistic" about baseball as a whole. or even Manny. The point of my post ws that I was not going to join a lynch mob a day after a report came out about Manny using a banned substance when it had some legit uses. I was basically taking a "wait and see approach" as more information leaked out. Some more has come out in regards to Manny using it to increase labido as his wife wanted to get pregnant therefore more of teh sexz.

I obviously know the game was/is dirty, but I'm also smart enough to not just hop onto any bandwagon just for the purpose of beating my chest about being pissed off about steroids. I point out it's very very possible Manny used the drug to try and hide steroid use but in some ways there some holes in that logic for me, but Manny isn't exactly the brightest bulb in the box.

this substance was banned for a particular reason, just like every other substance on the list, and that is because it can be used in conjunction with steroids, period.

Gee ya think? Duh.

in this case the media is doing nothing more than telling you why it was banned, and to think manny deserves more respect is sort of laughable here.

I didn't say Manny "deserved" anything. My issue, as usual, is with ESPN's and the media's dishonest coverage of nearly everything. I even pointed out an incident like this having to do with the Ryan Moats cop case. It' has less to do with giving Manny respect and more to do with ethical evenhanded reporting regardless of who the news is about.

i mean, come on, these guys keep their bodies and minds in shape for a living, and doing this is undoubtedly their entire world (outside of family.) if you honestly believe that they aren't entirely aware of what's going on, your like of manny as a person is just altering your opinion.

I don't like Manny as a person. I'm a fan of his as a baseball player. There's a difference. I obviously know these guys take care of their bodies but I also know Manny isn't very smart and I also know he's been passing drugs test for the last 5 years with no problem. So if he was using for 5 years why no positive tests for either the drug or hCG to help overcome the effects of it? Something about the logic/timeline just don't add up to me right now. Again I'll wait for more and more info to come out about this then make the call. It's not like this story will go away anytime soon.

, so i can totally understand where you're coming from, i just don't think that's the case here at all.

Obviously there's a story here, obviously it has to be covered but what I find so disturbing is the media lynch mob attitude with Manny and other players like A-Rod when even after Bonds basically admitted to using PED's ESPn circled the wagons and actually ran stories talking about how he DIDN'T. Peter Gammons was doing interviews actually talking about how we have no evidence Bonds ever used steroids, knowingly or otherwise. It's just bad reporting.

[Tailback U]

Thought this didn't really deserve its own thread, but is Manny-related:

Former Sox Infielder Lou Merloni Says the Red Sox, Under the Previous Regime (Led By Dan Duquette) Called a Meeting To Have a Doctor Speak to Players About the Right Way to Use Steroids
Originally Posted by Lou Merloni on Camcast SportsNet
I'm in spring training, and I got an 8:30-9:00 meeting in the morning. I walk into that office, and this happened while I was with the Boston Red Sox before this last regime, I'm sitting in the meeting. There's a doctor up there and he's talking about steroids, and everyone was like 'here we go, we're gonna sit here and get the whole thing -- they're bad for you.' No. He spins it and says 'you know what, if you take steroids and sit on the couch all winter long, you can actually get stronger than someone who works out clean, if you're going to take steroids, one cycle won't hurt you, abusing steroids it will.' He sat there for one hour and told us how to properly use steroids while I'm with the Boston Red Sox, sitting there with the rest of the organization, and after this I said 'what the heck was that?' And everybody on the team was like 'what was that?' And the response we got was 'well, we know guys are taking it, so we want to make sure they're taking it the right way'... Where did that come from? That didn't come from the Player's Association.

For the record, that is incredibly false. You can't just sit on the couch all winter and get strong just because you are taking steroids. You will bulk up and turn into a massive ball of fat. Steroids increase your body's ability to synthesize nutrients (carbs, proteins, fats). So you can't just sit on the couch and eat twinkies all winter and expect to become some jacked freak.

I hate doctors because half of them honestly don't know shit about steroids. I went to my doctor and told him that I plan on using steroids a couple years ago and that I'd like to get my bloodwork done every few weeks and make sure I'm ok throughout my cycle and he started lecturing me about steroids.

Even when I told him about which specific steroids I plan on using he really didn't know the difference between the type of esters or compounds or what they exactly do to your body. There are hundreds of different types of steroids and they are all different, doctors don't know anything about the differences between testosterone enanthate and trenbolone, etc.

They've just been programmed to say, "steroids are bad and will hurt you," even though they don't know shit about using them.

/rant

As for Manny, the story has holes in it. First, I'd like to know what they mean by "elevated testosterone levels." "Normal" testosterone levels in men range from 200ng./dl to 800ng./dl. If you can't tell, that is a pretty wide range. When I was tested I was around 300ng./dl. To me, "elevated" testosterone levels would have to be above 800ng/dl, but some labs even say the normal range can reach up to 1200ng./dl. I want to know exactly what his test levels were.

I wish they were more specific with this stuff. But the dumb asses at ESPN don't know shit about this stuff either.

They just make a bunch of bullshit up.

And for whatever it's worth:

Last year nearly 600,000 men age 45 and older used some form of prescription testosterone to raise the level of the sex hormone in their bodies back to the normal levels of testosterone in men, and the number is rising every year.

http://ezinearticles.com/?A-Guide-to-Normal-Testosterone-Levels-in-Men&id=159813