Jordan shares his disappointment of Heat Big Three

[bucky]

That's easy to say when you were surrounded by Pippen and Rodman.

Rodman was a one trick pony. No one will ever confuse him with a HOF'er. He was a great rebounder and that was about it. Pippen, was always a second fiddle. Even after Jordan left and it supposedly became Pippen's team, the Bulls couldn't even sniff a Championship until Jordan came back to be "the Man".

Pippen = over-rated.

Nice try though.

[ralaw]

Rodman was a one trick pony. No one will ever confuse him with a HOF'er. He was a great rebounder and that was about it. Pippen, was always a second fiddle. Even after Jordan left and it supposedly became Pippen's team, the Bulls couldn't even sniff a Championship until Jordan came back to be "the Man".

Pippen = over-rated.

Nice try though.

The year after Jordan left the Bulls won 55 games and were a bad Hugh Hollins call from playing in the Eastern Conference Finals. Pippen was a great player who's ability oftentimes was overlooked, because he played with the GOAT. Pippen's role on those championship teams from guarding the best perimeter player, guarding post players, to initiating the offense, playing the lanes, rebounding, passing, shooting, etc shouldn't be downplayed. Throughout his career Pippen has been earned every accolade bestowed upon him.

[bucky]

The year after Jordan left the Bulls won 55 games and were a bad Hugh Hollins call from playing in the Eastern Conference Finals. Pippen was a great player who's ability oftentimes was overlooked, because he played with the GOAT. Pippen's role on those championship teams from guarding the best perimeter player, guarding post players, to initiating the offense, playing the lanes, rebounding, passing, shooting, etc shouldn't be downplayed. Throughout his career Pippen has been earned every accolade bestowed upon him.

Pippen was a poor's mans Sidney Moncrief. Pippen couldn't even touch Sidney's talent.

Pippen = Over-rated. He will always be remembered as the guy pouting on the bench, refusing to go into the game, because the coach called the other guys number (Kukoch sp?) at the end of the game.

[ralaw]

Pippen was a poor's mans Sidney Moncrief. Pippen couldn't even touch Sidney's talent.

What does Moncrief have to do with this? Moncrief was before my time, so I can't comment on him; however, whatever his value was doesn't take away from Pippen's value to the Bulls.

Pippen = Over-rated. He will always be remembered as the guy pouting on the bench, refusing to go into the game, because the coach called the other guys number (Kukoch sp?) at the end of the game.

I guess it's a matter of perspective, because I don't remember him for that, but instead for what I posted previously.

[FirstTimer]

Of course, Miami is Wade's team and it will always(and should be) Wade's team. Wade's legacy is only going to be greater from now on out if they win titles, since he already won one on his own in 2006. This is Wade's team, no doubt about it!

But, as far as LeBron in Cleveland, he could never win.

Sure, they won 66 and then 60 games, but the regular season doesn't matter. They surrounded him with left-overs. Jamison was complete crap and he isn't an actual PF. He can't matchup against Gasol, Bosh, Garnett, etc. He'll get ran over by them. And maybe if they made more moves, he would've stayed. You knew it from the getco that he wasn't returning to Cleveland,

...Contradict much?

Personally, as a Heat fan, I don't see anything wrong with his legacy.

...Of course you don't....

What does Moncrief have to do with this? Moncrief was before my time, so I can't comment on him; however, whatever his value was doesn't take away from Pippen's value to the Bulls.

Bingo.

I guess it's a matter of perspective, because I don't remember him for that, but instead for what I posted previously.

Nor do I. I guess this "overrated" argument stems from where you "rate" Pippen to begin with. Pippen almost taking a team to a conference finals IMO doesn't stand up real well to that Bulls team being all that great. That Knicks team was damn good that season too and Pippen that year had a tremendous season but I'm not really sure Pippen ever had the makeup to truly carry a team to championships. Plus that Hue Hollins call was in game 5 and that series went 7 games. That game wasn't a clincher by any means. I mean the next season after they won 55 games that Bulls team was floundering before Jordan came back. Pippen was a fantastic player but he weas obviously no Jordan.

IMO Pippen was a better player in Moncrief though. Those two season where Pippen was "the man" for the Bulls Pippen had some brilliant statistical seasons and proved himself to be among the NBA's elite.

[Senser81]

Pippen was a poor's mans Sidney Moncrief. Pippen couldn't even touch Sidney's talent.

Pippen = Over-rated. He will always be remembered as the guy pouting on the bench, refusing to go into the game, because the coach called the other guys number (Kukoch sp?) at the end of the game.

I think Pippen was vastly superior to Moncrief on the defensive end. I think Pippen was great for the Bulls at that time...if you replaced Pippen with Moncrief, I don't think the Bulls would have been as good. Moncrief was a very good player. You could even make a case that Moncrief was a better basketball player than Pippen. But Pippen was a better 1-on-1 defender than Moncrief, which is what the Bulls needed.

[jeffx]

The year after Jordan left the Bulls won 55 games and were a bad Hugh Hollins call from playing in the Eastern Conference Finals. Pippen was a great player who's ability oftentimes was overlooked, because he played with the GOAT. Pippen's role on those championship teams from guarding the best perimeter player, guarding post players, to initiating the offense, playing the lanes, rebounding, passing, shooting, etc shouldn't be downplayed. Throughout his career Pippen has been earned every accolade bestowed upon him.

As a Knicks fan, it kills me to say this, but you're right(except about Jordan being the GOAT, but that's another thread). Pippen opened my eyes with his defense on Magic Johnson in the '91 Finals. The man did everything Jordan needed him to do to take Chicago to that next level. He's an elite player IMO.

[bucky]

IMO Pippen was a better player in Moncrief though.

Disagree. Moncrief would score most of his 20+ points a game in the second half, when most teams knew he was getting the ball. He was VERY strong for his size and would routinely post up. He had an above average 3 point shot and a good jump shot. Plus he was great at getting to the foul line. And he was a much better defensive player than he was an offensive player. Moncrief > Pippen.

This is what Jordan says about Moncrief:

Michael Jordan once told the Los Angeles Times, "When you play against Moncrief, you're in for a night of all-around basketball. He'll hound you everywhere you go, both ends of the court. You just expect it."

I think Pippen was vastly superior to Moncrief on the defensive end. But Pippen was a better 1-on-1 defender than Moncrief, which is what the Bulls needed.

Moncrief was a great defender with two Defensive Player of the Year awards. I don't ever recall Pippen taking that honor. I think MJ took it once.

Moncrief 2, MJ 1, Pippen 0.

Moncrief's Defense > Pippens

Some quotes from NBA.com.

The NBA Defensive Player of the Year Award was seemingly created just for him in 1982; he won the award its first two years of existence.

Although he was a legitimate offensive threat, Moncrief may have been best known for his unrelenting defensive play.

[FedEx227]

That quote doesn't really say anything just that he was a good defender in the early 80s. Scottie Pippen, in my opinion, is the best 1-on-1 perimeter defender in NBA history.

[FedEx227]

Unfortunately for LeBron, "your book" isn't the one everyone outside of South Beach is looking at on the shelf.

LeBron is second fiddle now, something Michael and Kobe never did.

And it's much worse legacy wise because he followed. He seemingly wasn't the leader that called everyone else to come with him.

That's where I think Jordan is even a bit wrong with his quote. This situation is like Jordan joining up with Isiah to the Pistons. Even if MJ called Larry and Magic and got together, Jordan is still looked at as the alpha-male and probably the best player on that squad.

Even though LeBron IS the best player on the Heat, he still is second fiddle.

[bucky]

That quote doesn't really say anything just that he was a good defender in the early 80s. Scottie Pippen, in my opinion, is the best 1-on-1 perimeter defender in NBA history.

So, winning the DPOY award twice doesn't mean anything?

[jeffx]

^^^ Loved Moncreif's game. He played on some excellent Bucks teams with Marques Johnson in the early 80s. Unfortunately, they played in the same conference with Bird's Celtics and Dr.J's Sixers. They beat Boston in the '83 playoffs only to lose to that great Philly team that would sweep LA in the Finals.

[Senser81]

Moncrief was a great defender with two Defensive Player of the Year awards. I don't ever recall Pippen taking that honor. I think MJ took it once.

Moncrief 2, MJ 1, Pippen 0.

Moncrief's Defense > Pippens

Some quotes from NBA.com.

Thats like saying since Brian Sipe won the NFL MVP award, he must have been a better QB than Roger Staubach, who never won one.

First off, Moncrief was a guard. He was 6-3 tops. He got by on determination. Pippen was much taller and more athletic. Second, Pippen was a better fit for the Bulls. He could match up with the other team's best offensive threat, regardless if it was a guard or forward. I don't think you'd have the same versatility with Moncrief.

[FedEx227]

Pippen never won any because DPOY has turned into the equivalent of Gold Gloves in baseball. Dikembe won multiple times because he made flashy blocks, ditto for Dwight Howard winning recently over the likes of Artest and Battier.

Moncreif was awesome, don't get me wrong, I'm just stating over a larger period of time I felt Pippen was top perimeter defender in the NBA and taken over his entire career I think he's the best ever.

Compare the eras and people they were guarding too. Pippen was up against one of the top eras in NBA history. Moncrief, albeit an absolute beast of a defender (11+ defensive win shares between 1981-1985) played in a much lesser era.

[FedEx227]

^^^ Loved Moncreif's game. He played on some excellent Bucks teams with Marques Johnson in the early 80s. Unfortunately, they played in the same conference with Bird's Celtics and Dr.J's Sixers. They beat Boston in the '83 playoffs only to lose to that great Philly team that would sweep LA in the Finals.

Very disappointing they were never able to get over the hump.