Lets get back to real NBA bball: 1993 Bulls-Knicks Game 2

[Woy]

Knicks/Bulls were great series, Starks was the man, loved watching him play

I loved the NBA from the Bird/Magic era until a little after Jordan left, trying to remember when I just stopped watching, maybe when the Pistons won the finals, was that Ben Wallace/Rip/Billiups?

Last year I remember watching closely; loved that Pistons squad. My interest slowly deteriorated after that though.

[Senser81]

I was referring to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md3rFQeCkAE

And that's fine. I won't argue the basketball was sub standard in the early 2000s. If that's the reason you stopped liking it, I'm perfectly fine with that reasoning. It's when people come up with the really lame "it became a thug league" crap that irritates me because there wasn't a more "thug" era in the NBA then the 80s-90s by it's truest definition unless of course you're referring to thug as "black guy with tattoos".

So the NBA marketed Jo Jo English? Thats news to me.

LOL at the David Stern shot at 0:27. A problem of his own making.

[FirstTimer]

I was referring to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md3rFQeCkAE

Got ya. IMO that's a far cry from the players going after fans. Defeinetly not good but players have had fights in almost every era...Hell, Kermit Washington almost got killed. It doesn't excuse fights in general it but the thug mentality thing for certain people had more to do with the going after the fans thing IMO then just simply "fights" in a general.

unless of course you're referring to thug as "black guy with tattoos".

I think that's what it mostly has to do with honestly. It was more the "street thug" image of the league for a time rather than "thug" in the sense that they were enforcers like Mason, Oakley and the like.

Not saying that the "street thug" image is correct, warranted, or whatever but I think that's what the term was being used to describe.

[FirstTimer]

For a while after the Jordan retirement the Western Conference Playoffs were the only thing worth watching in the NBA. The EC was shit during that time IMO. You could argue that even though Jordan's teams were so dominant that the WC was the stronger conference overall for parts of those Bulls runs. I think in some ways that was shown when Jordan leaves and the WC immedietly wins back to back titles.

Maybe my memory is off or my perception is wrong, but that's just the way I seem to remember it.

I remember watchign almsot every game of the Lakers WCF matchups during that time then barely watching the Finals because some weak ass EC squad made it through.

[red33]

wtf happened to my post?

[FedEx227]

So the NBA marketed Jo Jo English? Thats news to me.

...........When the did I say that?

[FedEx227]

For a while after the Jordan retirement the Western Conference Playoffs were the only thing worth watching in the NBA. The EC was shit during that time IMO. You could argue that even though Jordan's teams were so dominant that the WC was the stronger conference overall for parts of those Bulls runs. I think in some ways that was shown when Jordan leaves and the WC immedietly wins back to back titles.

Maybe my memory is off or my perception is wrong, but that's just the way I seem to remember it.

I remember watchign almsot every game of the Lakers WCF matchups during that time then barely watching the Finals because some weak ass EC squad made it through.

Didn't love those Kidd, Jefferson, K-Mart, Aaron Williams Nets squads?! ...They were awful.

[FirstTimer]

Didn't love those Kidd, Jefferson, K-Mart, Aaron Williams Nets squads?! ...They were awful.

[FedEx227]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMvk4qa9t5Q[/ame]

Forgot about Lucious Harris.

[Senser81]

...........When the did I say that?

Everyone hated the NBA in the early 2000s and the biggest thing I heard was because a) no more Jordan b) the most marketed players were "thugs" aka Allen Iverson.

You showed the Derek Harper-Jo Jo English fight as evidence to what you were referring to. I don't get the connection of the NBA marketing guys like Allen Iverson, Latrine Sprewell, Antoine Walker, etc. and a fight between Harper and Jo Jo English. The only way it would make sense would be if the NBA had marketed Jo Jo English (which they didn't).

[FedEx227]

Jesus christ...

I'm saying some people said they stopped watching the NBA because it became a "thug league" yet in the 80s and 90s there were some pretty gruesome fights, fouls and players that were 10 times worse then Allen Iverson wearing a throwback jersey and having cornrows.

My idea is nothing is more thug then the brand of hard-nosed basketball and fighting that occured in the 80s and 90s. I'm not saying Jo-Jo English was a thug, but if people are turned off by "thugs" why weren't they turned off by the type of behavior shown on the court during that era?

[FirstTimer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMvk4qa9t5Q

Forgot about Lucious Harris.

:hammer:

[Senser81]

Jesus christ...

I'm saying some people said they stopped watching the NBA because it became a "thug league" yet in the 80s and 90s there were some pretty gruesome fights, fouls and players that were 10 times worse then Allen Iverson wearing a throwback jersey and having cornrows.

My idea is nothing is more thug then the brand of hard-nosed basketball and fighting that occured in the 80s and 90s. I'm not saying Jo-Jo English was a thug, but if people are turned off by "thugs" why weren't they turned off by the type of behavior shown on the court during that era?

But I think there is a big difference between the NBA glorifying a "thug image" by allowing and proactively marketing people like Iverson and Sprewell, and Jo Jo English fighting with Derek Harper in 1994.

The NBA has always been identified with their top players. If their top players are questionably-talented thugs like Kenyon Martin and their top teams are questionably-talented sloppers like the Spurs and Pistons, then the NBA is going to be perceived as being a thug league.

[ralaw]

Back then I'd say the league was better, but I'm really not sure why, because at times because of all the grabbing, pushing and shoving it made for ugly basketball, but it was still enjoyable to watch, because the stars were likeable enough to cover for it. Today’s stars are talented, but they aren't as likeable for several reasons that have to do with too much exposure, jealousy, and people’s nostalgia.

For the most part though IMO people are drastically more critical of players today than they were of the 90's stars. Jordan routinely would go 10-25+ and no one would blink an eye, but when a player does it today he isn't clutch, is overrated, etc. In game 3 LeBron James was a facilitator, DWade was going off and the Heat won, yet all people could talk about was that James only had 17 points while forgetting he also had 9 assist. We use to just let the stars be who and what they were and we let them become, but since Jordan came along everyone is compared to Jordan's extremely high standard and because of that people have become too critical.

We no longer let players develop into the types of players they are and we criticize them when they aren’t like Jordan, but we then criticize them even more when we compare them to Jordan. This is why any elite wing player should try to distance themselves from Jordan’s aura as fast as they can, because it’s a lose/lose situation.

[FirstTimer]

Back then I'd say the league was better, but I'm really not sure why, because at times because of all the grabbing, pushing and shoving it made for ugly basketball, but it was still enjoyable to watch, because the stars were likeable enough to cover for it. Today’s stars are talented, but they aren't as likeable for several reasons that have to do with too much exposure, jealousy, and people’s nostalgia.

For the most part though IMO people are drastically more critical of players today than they were of the 90's stars. Jordan routinely would go 10-25+ and no one would blink an eye, but when a player does it today he isn't clutch, is overrated, etc. In game 3 LeBron James was a facilitator, DWade was going off and the Heat won, yet all people could talk about was that James only had 17 points while forgetting he also had 9 assist. We use to just let the stars be who and what they were and we let them become, but since Jordan came along everyone is compared to Jordan's extremely high standard and because of that people have become too critical.

We no longer let players develop into the types of players they are and we criticize them when they aren’t like Jordan, but we then criticize them even more when we compare them to Jordan. This is why any elite wing player should try to distance themselves from Jordan’s aura as fast as they can, because it’s a lose/lose situation.

I really don't know how true that is.

Jordan was a career 50% shooter from the field and shot barely under that in the playoffs. I fidn it hard to believe that he would routinely go 10-25 and still have a career shooting percentage that high. We overlooked those bad shooting games by Jordan because he usually ended up lighting it back up near or over 50% at some point for the rest of the playoffs.