NBA Random Thoughts

[Archer]

Well Fedex is basically making my points but with more in-depth stats... I have no work to be done here.

[ralaw]

The unfortunate part about Melo is that he has a smooth mid-range game with the ability to shoot off the dribble or catch and shoot. He also is a monster in the post. However, under D'Antoni he's developed bad habits, because D' Antoni sucks.

[Archer]

The unfortunate part about Melo is that he has a smooth mid-range game with the ability to shoot off the dribble or catching and shooting. He also is a monster in the post. However, under D'Antoni he's developed bad habits, because D' Antoni sucks.

Well I wouldn't totally blame D'Antoni.

Karl had to fight him non-stop about those habits in Denver and even then he never managed to totally kick them.

[FedEx227]

Exactly. This isn't something new. Karl had to beat it into his head to get him to even post up a little bit more, which he did for a time.

Once he got to a coach who wasn't riding his ass constantly like D'Antoni he went right back into his habits.

Worse yet, he holds the ball WAAAY too much. The other players on the floor have no idea what to do while Melo goes into business for himself and starts his iso.

[FirstTimer]

But Melo is a possession killer no matter what team he's on. You give him the ball it's going up. That's not a great style to play anymore. Especially not with a team like the Bulls that would have a few extra options with Rose on the team.

Career Usage Rate of 31.3%.

That's pretty skewed by playing on Denver teams that pretty much wanted him to be "the guy". They wanted the ball in his hands.

I hate how usage rate is now used as some ball hog stat. Look at guys like Kobe, Lebron, Wade, etc in their careers. High usage rates. Elite scorers like Melo are going to have high usage rates. It's just the nature of the beast.

LeBron his last year in Cleveland or Kobe in his least successful years.

This year so far he's trailing both Lebron and Kobe(according to ESPN)

His career rate is lower than Wade, James, Kobe according to Basketball Reference.

I just don't see the big deal about his usage rate especially given how great a scorer he is.

If he can somehow STOP Carmelo-ISO and actually move the ball in the flow of an offense maybe I'd be more up for the deal but he hasn't really shown that.

To be fair..he's never had a coach ask him to do that.

[FedEx227]

That's pretty skewed by playing on Denver teams that pretty much wanted him to be "the guy". They wanted the ball in his hands.

I hate how usage rate is now used as some ball hog stat. Look at guys like Kobe, Lebron, Wade, etc in their careers. High usage rates. Elite scorers like Melo are going to have high usage rates. It's just the nature of the beast.



This year so far he's trailing both Lebron and Kobe(according to ESPN)

His career rate is lower than Wade, James, Kobe according to Basketball Reference.

I just don't see the big deal about his usage rate especially given how great a scorer he is.



To be fair..he's never had a coach ask him to do that.

Because his usage rate is attributed to far more long twos then any of those guys.

Wade's high usage rate is okay because he's getting to the line a ton. LeBron drives far more and finishes at the rim. Both shoot a much higher percentage of free throws as well which justifies such a high amount of plays being finished for a single player. Melo doesn't exactly take a ton of high percentage shots.

I'm not using usage rate to say he's a ballhog. I'm using usage rate, combined with how we know he plays to show how I don't like his game.

Some people like that ballhog if he's your best player mentality which is fine but Carmelo hasn't really ever translated that to elite level play like Wade, LeBron or Kobe.

[nwfisch]

I guess the Bulls thought Derrick is better served being the scorer instead of the facilitator.

I personally think Rose could have been a 20 pt./game 10 assist/game guy with Melo on the Bulls.

[FirstTimer]

Wade's high usage rate is okay because he's getting to the line a ton.

On average...1 more time a game per Melo..while shooting 3-4% worse at the line.


James is around 1 more per game as well. While shooting 5-6% worse at the line than Melo

Unimpressed.

Some people like that ballhog if he's your best player mentality which is fine but Carmelo hasn't really ever translated that to elite level play like Wade, LeBron or Kobe.

As a scorer. Disagree. Melo is an elite scorer. He's not as good a player as those other guys but that's not really the overall point. Especially when discussing if you'd give up Joakim fricking Noah to pair him with Derrick Rose.

I'm not going to really take his usage rate into account all that much when evaluating how he slots in with Rose given the system Thibs runs and how much Rose controls the ball as well.

[FirstTimer]

I guess the Bulls thought Derrick is better served being the scorer instead of the facilitator.

I personally think Rose could have been a 20 pt./game 10 assist/game guy with Melo on the Bulls.

Long term I think the Bulls are going to grind Rose into the ground by doing so.

[ralaw]

Long term I think the Bulls are going to grind Rose into the ground by doing so.

This is true, but his game is more condusive to being a scorer....he's Allen Iverson.

[Archer]

I will agree with FT on one thing

It's not like the Nuggets asking price was that high at the time (before they suckered NY into giving up half its roster)

Noah is an overrated hustle player who can easily be replaced.
Gibson is a nice athletic combo-defender (not a real term) but he can be replaced.
Draft picks are nothing if you are a playoff team

[FedEx227]

No, no and that was my point. I'd TOTALLY take Melo for that price. No doubt. If today there was a deal for Melo that wanted anything higher then that, I'd be less than thrilled about it.

I never once said I wouldn't trade for Melo if the price was shitty Noah, Gibson and some draft picks.

[nwfisch]

Long term I think the Bulls are going to grind Rose into the ground by doing so.

Agree

[KNUBB]

So the Derrick Rose is Allen Iverson comparison is no longer taboo I see.

[FedEx227]

I still think they are stupid when you look at the two players games.

They are similar in that Iverson was short and Rose is short and they scored points, played basketball and were black. Other than that I don't think there's a lot too it, they have different play styles and ways their game flow within an offense.