Yet another reason to not take advanced basketball stats seriously.

[FirstTimer]

Carlos Boozer...7th in the NBA in Defensive Win Shares. .02 behind league leader Dwight Howard.



He finished in the top 20 last season.

:whut:

[FirstTimer]

He also finished 7th in the NBA last season in Defensive Rating.

[EmpireWF]

If any Knick finished within the top 100 a year ago, just erase those #s from existence right now.

[Warner2BruceTD]

As long as there are calculators, there will be geeks who try to get cute with stats.

Basketball and football are so heavily teammate dependent that these SABR attempts end up coming off so comical.

DVOA 4lyfe.

[FedEx227]

The better stats in my mind are the lineup ones that 82games puts up. I love lineup +/- and things like PACE.

[Guest]

As long as there are calculators, there will be geeks who try to get cute with stats.

Basketball and football are so heavily teammate dependent that these SABR attempts end up coming off so comical.

DVOA 4lyfe.

Burn Rate may be the best stat that I've ever seen, and I hate sabermetrics on principle.

[A Tasty Burgerr]

Boozer is the worst defender in the league right now. I tried to watch the Bulls play the Pistons last week and I was the entire game.

I'll watch during the playoffs.

The game when the Bulls gave up 68 points or when they gave up 83?


Defensive win shares and defensive rating are both heavily influenced by the team's defensive performance so they're obviously not going to define what a player's individual defensive ability is. It "is an estimate of the player's points allowed per 100 defensive possessions".

The Bulls are an excellent defensive team and Boozer is a part of that scheme. The team is successful defensively when he is on the court so he will have a high total.


In defense of the stat the league leaders in the rating the past several years:

2011-12 NBA Dwight Howard
2010-11 NBA Dwight Howard
2009-10 NBA Dwight Howard
2008-09 NBA Dwight Howard
2007-08 NBA Dwight Howard
2006-07 NBA Tim Duncan
2005-06 NBA Tim Duncan
2004-05 NBA Ben Wallace
2003-04 NBA Ben Wallace
2002-03 NBA Ben Wallace
2001-02 NBA Ben Wallace
2000-01 NBA Tim Duncan

[FirstTimer]

The game when the Bulls gave up 68 points or when they gave up 83?


Defensive win shares and defensive rating are both heavily influenced by the team's defensive performance so they're obviously not going to define what a player's individual defensive ability is. It "is an estimate of the player's points allowed per 100 defensive possessions".

The Bulls are an excellent defensive team and Boozer is a part of that scheme. The team is successful defensively when he is on the court so he will have a high total.

[FedEx227]

The issue with the stat lies in Boozer is actually a decent one on one defender, it's his complete lack of "help defense" or his inability to get a hand in the way of a pass ever.

[FedEx227]

And like ATB said, individually basketball saber stats aren't great but they are great on a team and lineup level.

[FirstTimer]

The issue with the stat lies in Boozer is actually a decent one on one defender, it's his complete lack of "help defense" or his inability to get a hand in the way of a pass ever.

Ehhh. Disagree maybe to an extent.

The larger reason I say that is that in the NBA unless you are an elite or upper tier one on one defender it's pretty much useless in my estimation as everyone is so damn talented and good that team defense is a much more important concept. Being a "decent one on one defender" in the NBA doesn't really mean much to me in all honesty.

BTW Fed, my new Joakim Noah comparison thanks to Per36 is Chris Andersen +$8 million a year.

[FedEx227]

I agree, I'm just saying why the stat grades him out pretty well:

A) Bulls are a great defense team
B) Boozer is good at not falling over when an offensive player is in front of him.

Doesn't mean he's good but DWS will grade him out decently.

NOAH SUCKS.

[FedEx227]

Seriously, he's awful.

Korver too. I contend that if Korver were black people would go on and on about how lazy he is, how he forces shots, doesn't get teammates involved and doesn't care about defense.

But he's white so: AWWW C'MON HE'S JUST NOT FAST ENOUGH TO DEFEND SOME OF THOSE GUYS!

[A Tasty Burgerr]

Are you jonesying that the Bulls are good at defense or that Boozer is a member of the team? I could defend either of those if necessary...

[FirstTimer]

Are you jonesying that the Bulls are good at defense or that Boozer is a member of the team? I could defend either of those if necessary...

I'm laughing at Boozer contributing anything to the Bulls being good on defense as a team. Boozer is one of the worst team defense players in the NBA.