UNC/Duke(aka What the Hell was Zeller Doing?)

[FirstTimer]

WTF was Zeller thinking on the last play. Less than 5 seconds to play, you're up two, Rivers has been hitting that pull up/stepbackish three all night and you actually give him any space at all?

If he goes by you and hits a pull up two in order to tie the game fine. Whatever. Wear it.

But to give a hot shooter space to knock down a shot he has been hitting all night when it's the only shot on the floor that can beat you.......

[Woy]

Yeah, he has to step up there and force him to drive. Rivers was taking that shot no matter what and wasn't going to dish to an open teammate, so you get in his grill, make him beat you off the dribble and if he does and makes it, then oh well. The way they've shot FTs the past two games, I wouldn't be completely upset at a foul but that'd still be really risky.

Zeller played great though - kept the team in it in the first half when Duke was knocking down all of their threes. Shame that he'll be remembered by the errant tip-in and the buzzer-beater.

[FirstTimer]

Yeah, he has to step up there and force him to drive. Rivers was taking that shot no matter what and wasn't going to dish to an open teammate, so you get in his grill, make him beat you off the dribble and if he does and makes it, then oh well. The way they've shot FTs the past two games, I wouldn't be completely upset at a foul but that'd still be really risky.

Zeller played great though - kept the team in it in the first half when Duke was knocking down all of their threes. Shame that he'll be remembered by the errant tip-in and the buzzer-beater.

Our 7th grade team was watching that game and clowning on Zeller for giving Rivers space as soon as the shot went in. Lulz.

[Woy]

I just watched the play again on SC...why didn't Bullock deny Rivers the ball after the rebound? Rivers and Mason Plumlee were the only two in the area and Bullock backed off to let Rivers get the ball and come down the court.

Just some really stupid mistakes on the UNC side.

[ralaw]

I don't know what anyone expects Zeller to do on Rivers in that moment. Rivers made a tough shot and that was it. I guess he could have forced him to put the ball on the floor, but then he had to trust that Henson was going to be there to protect the rim. Normally the scouting report on Rivers is to deny the drive and let him shoot. IMO either way if he denies the drive and gives him space to shoot or forces the drive UNC is still hoping the shot doesn't go in. After the fact it's easy to say what he should have done. Meh, it happens.....great players make shots.

In he end UNC just fell apart in the closing minutes.

[FirstTimer]

I don't know what anyone expects Zeller to do on Rivers in that moment. Rivers made a tough shot and that was it. I guess he could have forced him to put the ball on the floor, but then he had to trust that Henson was going to be there to protect the rim. Normally the scouting report on Rivers is to deny the drive and let him shoot. Meh, it happens.....great players make shots.

In he end UNC just fell apart in the closing minutes.

That. In that situation you don't allow a shot to go up that could beat you. Espeically to a guy that has been hitting that exact shot all night. Zeller had a massive brain fart. Just horrid play. I don't care what the scouting report says. Less than 5 seconds, up 2, if Rivers is just standing there looking at a 3..you don't let it go up.

IMO if I was Zeller as soon as Rivers comes off that switch....I foul.

Can't beat me from the FT line. :olhoss:

[NAHSTE]

I don't know what anyone expects Zeller to do on Rivers in that moment. Rivers made a tough shot and that was it. I guess he could have forced him to put the ball on the floor, but then he had to trust that Henson was going to be there to protect the rim. Normally the scouting report on Rivers is to deny the drive and let him shoot. Meh, it happens.....great players make shots.

In he end UNC just fell apart in the closing minutes.

With under 3 seconds left don't you have to crowd him a bit more? I didn't play much organized ball but isn't the worst thing you can do is give him enough room to step into the shot?

There was like 3 feet of space between them before Rivers decided to pull the trigger.

[ralaw]

With under 3 seconds left don't you have to crowd him a bit more? I didn't play much organized ball but isn't the worst thing you can do is give him enough room to step into the shot?

There was like 3 feet of space between them before Rivers decided to pull the trigger.

It depends, Zeller isn't a perimeter defender, so he's probably more accustomed to try and use his length. If Zeller was perimeter defender who has experience defending on the perimeter I’d say he did leave too much room, but a perimeter defender also would have the foot speed to recover to at least try and not let Rivers turn the corner to the hoop. Rivers has an extremely quick first step. If you ask me Zeller just miss timed his jump and couple that with Rivers' elevation and quick release it made for a poor defensive play. IMO Zeller had the right idea, but he should have been a bit closer so that he could use his length better to cause Rivers to have to adjust his trajectory.

[FirstTimer]

It depends, Zeller isn't a perimeter defender, so he's probably more accustomed to try and use his length. If Zeller was perimeter defender who has experience defending on the perimeter I’d say he did leave too much room, but a perimeter defender also would have the foot speed to recover to at least try and not let Rivers turn the corner to the hoop. Rivers has an extremely quick first step. If you ask me Zeller just miss timed his jump and couple that with Rivers' elevation and quick release it made for a poor defensive play. IMO Zeller had the right idea, but he should have been a bit closer so that he could use his length better to cause Rivers to have to adjust his trajectory.

That play doesn't beat you and you(should) have help inside.

Zeller fucked up majorly.

[ralaw]

That play doesn't beat you and you(should) have help inside.

Zeller fucked up majorly.

The commenet you bolded was if Zeller was a perimeter defender. You're expecting a post defender to understand proper defensive perimeter technique. As I said, he's probably thought he had the length to defend the shot (he's no Anthony Davis).

Obviously it doesn't beat you unless he gets a shot off and gets fouled. It would have helped if those behind him would have communicated, which obviously didn't happen. In the end there are different ways to defend a posession. If Rivers misses that shot its not an issue. As I said all he had to do was be about 1-foot closer and that shot probably doesn't go in.

[FirstTimer]

The commenet you bolded was if Zeller was a perimeter defender. You're expecting a post defender to understand proper defensive perimeter technique.

No, I'm expecting a college basketball player to know score/situation.

I don't care if Zeller comes at Rivers doing the windmill while doing cartwheels. You don't give a hot shooter space to hit a shot to win a game that he's been hitting all night.

It's that simple.

If Rivers misses that shot its not an issue.

Doesn't change Zeller being dumb.

[Chrispy]

At least put your hands up, make it harder for Rivers. He didn't put his hands up until Rivers shot the ball.

[ralaw]

No, I'm expecting a college basketball player to know score/situation.

I don't care if Zeller comes at Rivers doing the windmill while doing cartwheels. You don't give a hot shooter space to hit a shot to win a game that he's been hitting all night.

It's that simple.




Doesn't change Zeller being dumb.

Meh, either way Duke probably would have gotten a 3 off anyways, because if Rivers was going to drive he would have done it earlier and he had Curry in the corner for a wide open 3, becuase his defender would have collapsed on the drive. As I said this happens.....it's basketball. I never said Zeller made the correct play.....I just think he poorly executed what he was trying to do. Was it dumb? IDK...just poorly executed. There are multiple ways to defend this play. If your issue is to not let a hot shooter take the shot, than another defender could have came over to force the ball out of his hands....that didn't happen either. The play was a microcosm of how UNC closed that game out.

[FirstTimer]

Meh, either way Duke probably would have gotten a 3 off anyways, because if Rivers was going to drive he would have done it earlier and he had Curry in the corner for a wide open 3

Rivers has no reason to drive with Zeller playing off of him by 3-5 feet with his hands pointed at his waist.

If your issue is to not let a hot shooter take the shot, than another defender could have came over to force the ball out of his hands.

5 seconds left. IMO you don't do that. The only guy who should be allowed tohelp in that situation is someone guarding a guy inside the arc.

[ralaw]

5 seconds left. IMO you don't do that. The only guy who should be allowed tohelp in that situation is someone guarding a guy inside the arc.

I well coached team could have done it, because at that point everyone in the building including Zeller and the Duke players were just standing around watcing.