Your Top 10 Favorite Players of All-Time

[FirstTimer]

Why are we comparing statistics of a quarterback and a basketball player?

Because I don't know anything about handball.

[Senser81]

Why are we comparing statistics of a quarterback and a basketball player?

Because if we just look at Antoine Walker's basketball statistics, we throw up...

[NAHSTE]

Antoine Walker was okay, but he was no Satchel Paige.

Wait, what?

[FedEx227]

Bobby Fischer won a lot more chess tournaments than Walker won NBA titles.

[Senser81]

Bobby Fischer won a lot more chess tournaments than Walker won NBA titles.

But Walker played on bad chess teams. He was just as much of a leader as Bobby Fischer.

[Yawkey Way]

1. Thank you for finding a way to compare Antoine Walker and Tom Brady while also spewing what I believe to be a Tom Gugliota reference earlier. Every sports fans dream.

2. I think what Len is trying to say, I THINK, is that there are multiple ways to be a leader. You have example A: Brady, who wins a lot and is considered one of the GOAT. Then you have example B: Antoine Walker, who was a leader within context. He led a bunch of shitbums, and never won anything, even at casinos.

3. The whole premise of this argument is really weird because it's a POST YOUR FAVORITE PLAYER thread, and Len is entitled to think whatever he wants about HIS FAVORITE PLAYER.

4. I hate you FT.

[FirstTimer]

1. Thank you for finding a way to compare Antoine Walker and Tom Brady while also spewing what I believe to be a Tom Gugliota reference earlier. Every sports fans dream.

2. I think what Len is trying to say, I THINK, is that there are multiple ways to be a leader. You have example A: Brady, who wins a lot and is considered one of the GOAT. Then you have example B: Antoine Walker, who was a leader within context. He led a bunch of shitbums, and never won anything, even at casinos.

3. The whole premise of this argument is really weird because it's a POST YOUR FAVORITE PLAYER thread, and Len is entitled to think whatever he wants about HIS FAVORITE PLAYER.

4. I hate you FT.

While true..that doesn't mean that when he openly comments on it we aren't allowed to post feedback about it if what is said is either statistically untrue or illogical.

[Senser81]

2. I think what Len is trying to say, I THINK, is that there are multiple ways to be a leader. You have example A: Brady, who wins a lot and is considered one of the GOAT. Then you have example B: Antoine Walker, who was a leader within context. He led a bunch of shitbums, and never won anything, even at casinos.

This misses the point. Your summation of Brady is terrible...he isn't a leader because he "wins a lot and is considered one of the GOAT"...you are confusing cause and effect. Brady is a leader because he is a great player and usually comes up big in the clutch. BECAUSE of those attributes, he wins a lot and is considered one of the GOAT.

(Skip Bayless voice) I've played sports my whole life, and I've found that the best way to be a leader is to play well. No one looks up to a guy who plays poorly, and no one really views a bench player as a true team leader. I don't classify a guy who misses 1000+ shots per year and turns the ball over 3 times a game to be a "great leader". Playing poorly doesn't exactly smack of "leadership".

And people make it seem as if Walker playing on a bad team was a disadvantage, but, again, what good team would allow Walker to miss so many shots and handle the ball so much? If Walker were on a good team, he'd probably average 12ppg, 7rebs, 1.5 asts. Pretty good numbers, but not all star numbers.

[Yawkey Way]

I didn't miss any point, I simply don't want to spend 3 paragraphs dragging out a simple-minded explanation like you're doing. I really didn't want to add anything to this pointless argument other than to express my gratitude for a Tom Gugliotta/Antoine Walker/Tom Brady three-way, mention that Tom Brady is one of the GOAT #FThomermoment, and tell FT I hated him.

But please, explain to me more about cause and effect. :olhoss:

[FirstTimer]

I didn't miss any point, I simply don't want to spend 3 paragraphs dragging out a simple-minded explanation like you're doing. I really didn't want to add anything to this pointless argument other than to express my gratitude for a Tom Gugliotta/Antoine Walker/Tom Brady three-way, mention that Tom Brady is one of the GOAT #FThomermoment, and tell FT I hated him.

But please, explain to me more about cause and effect. :olhoss:

I wouldn't consider that a homer comment.

[Senser81]

But please, explain to me more about cause and effect. :olhoss:

Cause: Terrible ref doing NC St. bball game

Effect: Tom Gugliotta kicked out of game

[Len B]

You aren't getting it. My point was about 2007 (not 2007 and on), because that year Brady had arguably the best statistical year for a QB ever and didn't win the Super Bowl...following your logic, this would make Brady LESS of a leader because even though he played well his team didn't win the Super Bowl. I don't think that was the case.

Your point about Brady pre 2007 being considered a legendary leader is mostly irrelevent because Brady pre 2007 was also a great player. He went to 3 pro bowls in 6 years, led the league in passing yardage, led the league in TDs, had one of the highest win% of any QB in history, etc. So if your point is that Walker was just as much of a leader as Brady it just that Brady won titles and Walker didn't, then: 1) thats a truly moronic statement on its own because of its illogical basis, and 2) its a bad comparison because Brady was a much better NFL player than Walker was an NBA player.

Dilfer was a great leader. All of his teammates loved him. I figure he would be good to compare to Walker because both were drafted high, were considered to be busts, and had slightly above-average skills.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

I agree with you that in no way, shape or form is Antoine Walker even close to Tom Brady in terms of intangibles, leadership, clutch, etc.

I agree with you that Antoine Walker was NOT an All-Star basketball player consistently and that he shot a shit ton of ill advised shots, and did have his fair share of turnovers. To be fair, Walker did make three all-star games as well.

I stand corrected on Dilfer, and will say good comparison if that is the case. I thought it was the defense that was the renowned leader of the team, but I guess I'm wrong on that. However, he is not a bust. How can you be a bust when you aren't a top 5 pick, you make 3 all-star teams and you still performed night in and night out your first 6+ seasons? Let's not just throw the word bust around.

I'm making my point as if you grew up in Boston, which I do apologize for. In Boston circa 2002, Antoine Walker was despised and fans were ready to kick him out of town despite helping the Celtics elevate their game and make a deep run in the playoffs in back to back seasons with a completely horrendous cast. People who say it was Pierce who helped them get there were wrong. Pierce was still a young, albeit very incredible player, but his leadership was non existant.

Meanwhile, Tom Brady had won a Superbowl, had marginal statistics and every fan thought he was the epitome of leadership -- it turned out they were right, but at the time that wasn't the point.

The point was that leadership only matters to fans around here if you win a title or if you don't. I thought what Walker was able to do with the likes of Tony Delk, Walter McCarty, Tony Battie, etc. was an incredible display of leadership. But because he didn't have the stereotypical NBA game, people didn't like him. They miss out on his versatility and leadership and just point out his flaws. That's all the point is.

If it were just you and I talking it'd be easier, but I have to deal with the moronic FT who has even admitted to Fedex and others he never watched early 2000's basketball. In his eyes I'm a homer who is spewing Antoine Walker love to beyond great heights, but considering I underrate Paul Pierce I'm not sure how that fits into the puzzle.

[Len B]

And people make it seem as if Walker playing on a bad team was a disadvantage, but, again, what good team would allow Walker to miss so many shots and handle the ball so much? If Walker were on a good team, he'd probably average 12ppg, 7rebs, 1.5 asts. Pretty good numbers, but not all star numbers.

I don't get the logic of this at all, if you don't mind explaining why you feel this way. When Walker was over the hill and on the champion Miami Heat, he came off the bench and had 12/5/2 in just 26 minutes per game. Base it off the standard 36 per and you have a 16/7/3 guy who is past his prime. Because he touched the ball less his shot percentage was higher than almost any season in Boston. It wasn't very good, but it was good for Walker. Antoine was at his best on the block, had he been on a good team he'd be forced to stay down low and grab rebounds (which he did very well) and score in the post (which he did very well).

Being on a bad team will inflate your points per game totals if you're shooting much more than you should be, but it doesn't mean that you'll be a worse player. Structure and proper coaching would have made Walker one of the better players in the league. He had the talent to do so, and you can't deny that he didn't considering his college career and his flashes of All-Star ability. You can't just take his stats and adjust them based on being on a new team.

You put a 25 year old Antoine Walker on a good team that doesn't require him to run the offense, and I think you see a much better player.

[Len B]

Was funny going back and reading his college scouting report. You say he was a bust, but what exactly were the expectations for a non-top 5 pick in the NBA? His career played out just like the report would say.

 

Antoine can handle the ball well for a small forward. But too small
for the power forward spot. Has range from the college 3pt. line.
Can and will pass the ball. In his sophmore season was finally becoming
the player Pitino thought he would be. Plays defense well.

Strenghts - Does everything well
Weakness - Doesn't excel in anything

The 2nd best player on Kentucky last season, Antoine Walker started
to blossom into a superstar his sophomore season. A big-time
recruit out of Chicago, Antoine Walker was annointed the next
Jamal Mashburn his freshman season, even wearing Mashburn's #24
uniform number. Who could you blame for the comparisons -- Walker
had the all-around game, the offensive explosiveness, the ability to
play inside and outside. His freshman year saw him play mostly
a supporting role, until the SEC tournament where he really shone
and was named Tournament MVP. But last season he really started to
live up to the expectations that were set upon him.

As stated previously, Antoine Walker (like several Kentucky players)
has a well-diversified game with multiple skills, especially
offensively. Walker can flat out score, and gets his points from
a variety of ways. He is a dangerous mid-range shooter, and can
also take the ball to the hole very well, and can finish in a variety
of ways (as shown by his drive past Erik Dampier this season, while
switching to his left hand for the layup to avoid the shot block).
While not a big-time leaper, Walker is an excellent finisher. Walker
has a tremendous inside game and takes the ball to the basket very
strong, with no regard to who his defender is. While this is quite
effective most of the time, sometimes it's as if he thinks he's
playing back in high school, and can sometimes can get him in
trouble against a taller player. If there's one kink in the armor
of Walker's offensive game though, it's his outside shooting. After
a freshman season in which he showed some potential from deep, his
sophomore season was very forgettable from 3-pt land. He never
showed the range nor consistency all season. His form even looked
funny, often times it looks like a flat, shotput-like missle hurled
towards the basket. It's certainly something that Walker will need
to work on for the pros.

To complement his scoring, Antoine Walker is also a nice passer and
ball-handler. He finished 2nd on the team in assists behind point
guard Anthony Epps, and often times had some very special-looking
passes to teamates for easy hoops. Like teammate Walter McCarty,
Walker is an excellent interior passer. He also has a tremendous
handle, and often after getting the defensive rebound, would take
the ball up the court himself and set up a teammate for the score.
Defensively, Walker can be a terror when motivated. He often was
the lead man in Kentucky's press, as he guarded the man out of
bounds. He has quick hands, which often leads to steals (where he
finished tied for 2nd on the team) and instant fast breaks. Walker
also has some pretty nice rebounding skills, and led the team in
that department last season. He is capable of putting up double
doubles at times.

On a negative note however, Walker does seem to be more of a "me
first" type of player. His early declaration for the NBA draft
somewhat reflected that (along with his family situation). While he
did fit into Pitino's team concept at UK, sometimes it did seem like
Walker would sulk if things weren't working out for him, much like
how former UK player Rodrick Rhodes would do. Coming out of
HS, Walker was known as a notorious trash talker, and while he never
really showed that at UK, he does have a reputation. This baggage
really is rather minor, however, as the fact he did fit into the
team concept at UK and didn't hinder at all (and in fact, was a major
player) in Kentucky's national championship run.

While Walker played a lot of PF (and sometimes C) at Kentucky --
mostly due to necessity -- his position is firmly at SF for the NBA.
Sizewise and game-wise, it's a perfect fit. Teams will be able to
utilize his low-post game in their schemes to their advantage. He
may see some time at PF in an emergency. If he improves his outside
shot enough, Walker may very well end up seeing a lot of time at
SG, considering his ball-handling skills.

The fact that Antoine Walker left early for the draft during his
Kentucky career didn't surprise UK fans -- the fact he did it after
his sophomore year did. But considering the fact that he's projected
as a lottery pick, who can blame him. Antoine Walker will likely
be the 2nd SF taken in the draft, after John Wallace.

[Senser81]

If Walker were on a good team, he'd probably average 12ppg, 7rebs, 1.5 asts. Pretty good numbers, but not all star numbers.

I don't get the logic of this at all, if you don't mind explaining why you feel this way. When Walker was over the hill and on the champion Miami Heat, he came off the bench and had 12/5/2 in just 26 minutes per game.