The Height of Wonkery: An In-Depth Look at the NBA With the Most Innovative...

[Pitty]

Yeah, the more I think about it, I probably would. I was thinking in the pantheon of all-time greats, Kobe is ahead of him but if we're doing generational or era. He's in that conversation with Kobe. He's no doubt one of, if not the greatest PF of all time and if I'm doing a top 5 of the era (say 1998-2008) I'm going with Duncan, LeBron, Kobe, Shaq and Garnett.

So forget what I said earlier, put him up there. I've always been a big defender of him too. I guess he's easy to forget these days because he's been just average for a few years now while a lot of other all timers went out as still pretty dominant. (Shaq of course had a few shit years but those are complete afterthoughts)

1998-2008 with no Iverson?

[FedEx227]

In the top 5? Hell no. We're talking about 5 sure-fire, first ballot no doubt Hall of Famers. Iverson is in a top 10-15 but top 5? Not a chance.

[FedEx227]

I think when Kobe's career is finally over, his numbers will be almost Wilt-like. Its amazing to me how long Kobe has played and how productive he's been. I put Duncan on Kobe's level, but I would stop short of saying Duncan was/is better than Kobe.

Right. I'm by no means a Kobe fan but I would not put Duncan over him. That's really hard to do.

[ralaw]

1998-2008 with no Iverson?

In the top 5? Hell no. We're talking about 5 sure-fire, first ballot no doubt Hall of Famers. Iverson is in a top 10-15 but top 5? Not a chance.

I guess you could bump James off the list since he came into the league in 2003? However, I would argue that in those 5 seasons from 2003 to 2008 James was better than Iverson.

[FedEx227]

I would argue that too and you and I would be 100% correct lol.

[FedEx227]

Player A: 28.9 ppg, 42% FG, 31% 3PT, 6.2 APG, 3.8 RPG, 21.5 PER, 51% TS%, .134 Win Shares/48

Player B: 27.3 ppg, 46% FG, 32% 3PT, 6.6 APG, 6.9 RPG, 25.2 PER, 54% TS%, .193 Win Shares/48

[Juggernaut]

I use to be a consistent poster at http://www.basketballforum.com/, but will probably start posting again. I mostly lurk at RealGM, CCS and this Lakers forum. You can find some good basketball discussion on them all, but there are also some pretty bad discussions as well, but this is typical on most sitess. The good thing is that they are all pretty active. I actually wanted to make the VSN NBA discussion more consistent, but there really aren't enough of us.

What was your screen name on bbf? I used to frequent that site a lot but I stopped as I stopped foruming in general.

[FirstTimer]

I use to be a consistent poster at http://www.basketballforum.com/, but will probably start posting again. I mostly lurk at RealGM, CCS and this Lakers forum. You can find some good basketball discussion on them all, but there are also some pretty bad discussions as well, but this is typical on most sitess. The good thing is that they are all pretty active. I actually wanted to make the VSN NBA discussion more consistent, but there really aren't enough of us.

[DoubleDeuce]

Player A: 28.9 ppg, 42% FG, 31% 3PT, 6.2 APG, 3.8 RPG, 21.5 PER, 51% TS%, .134 Win Shares/48

Player B: 27.3 ppg, 46% FG, 32% 3PT, 6.6 APG, 6.9 RPG, 25.2 PER, 54% TS%, .193 Win Shares/48

Player C: 27.6 ppg, 48% FG, 34% 3PT, 6.9 APG, 7.2 RPG, 27.5 PER, 57% TS%, .237 Win Shares/48

Player D: 24.9 PPG, 49% FG, 29% 3PT, 6.1 APG, 5.0 RPG, 25.6 PER, 57% TS%, .195 Win Shares/48

Just for fun

[FedEx227]

Player C for sure.

Am I going to look like an idiot now?

[ralaw]

What was your screen name on bbf? I used to frequent that site a lot but I stopped as I stopped foruming in general.

ralaw

[ralaw]

Player C: 27.6 ppg, 48% FG, 34% 3PT, 6.9 APG, 7.2 RPG, 27.5 PER, 57% TS%, .237 Win Shares/48

Player D: 24.9 PPG, 49% FG, 29% 3PT, 6.1 APG, 5.0 RPG, 25.6 PER, 57% TS%, .195 Win Shares/48

Just for fun

Player D looks like a prime Grant Hill before the injuries, but I don't think he averaged that many ppg. Who is it? McGrady?

[Pitty]

Player A: 28.9 ppg, 42% FG, 31% 3PT, 6.2 APG, 3.8 RPG, 21.5 PER, 51% TS%, .134 Win Shares/48

Player B: 27.3 ppg, 46% FG, 32% 3PT, 6.6 APG, 6.9 RPG, 25.2 PER, 54% TS%, .193 Win Shares/48

This is why win shares in the NBA are kind of mularkey. Iverson played from 2001-2007 with the Sixers trotting out a bunch of 40 year olds. I mean he took a team with Tyrone Hill, Todd McCollough, Dikembe Mutombo, Aaron McKie, and Matt Geiger getting significant minutes to the Championship game. Of course Lebron is more talented, but to say Iverson isn't a sure fire first ballot HoF'er is still ludicrous.

19th All-Time Scorer
11 time All-Star
7 time All-NBA
1 MVP
3x Steals Leader
4x Scoring Champion
Rookie of the Year
2x All-Star MVP (although that's pretty irrelevant)
Averaged 29.7 ppg in the Playoffs