Cavaliers' Ilgauskas surpasses 10,000 point mark

[Lupe]

Does anyone think that Big Z deserves to have his number retired more then Chris Webber? Webber had his number retired by the Kings earlier in the season.

[LC AAU]

IMO he deserves his Number retired as much as Cwebb. And he's still going to play a few more seasons also.

[ralaw]

Vinsane,

The point you're missing is that Z's accomplishments shouldn't even be compared to the players you mentioned, because Big Z isn't the calibur of player those other guys you mentioned are. You're comparison would have made more sense had you compared Big Z's accomplishments to Jeff Hornececk, Dan Majerle, John Starks, etc as these are guys who are closer to the calibur of player as Big Z has been. Big Z is a role player with one or two all star game selections, while the guys you mentioned are all-time greats, which is why their jerseys are retired regardless of having won a championship.

[FirstTimer]

Does anyone think that Big Z deserves to have his number retired more then Chris Webber? Webber had his number retired by the Kings earlier in the season.

LOL at this.....

That's ridiculous too. Webber>>>>Big Z. CWebb was one of the best PF's in the NBA during his time and for a career put up numbers and career averages few others have. CWebb is a borderline HOF candidate, who was the key piece on a lot of contender. Big Z is a role player for a below average team most of his career and not the caliber player CWebb was.

20 ppg, 9 rpg, 4 apg has only been done by five other players in NBA History.

Elgin Baylor
Larry Bird
Billy Cunningham
Wilt Chamberlian
Kevin Garnett

Vinsane,

The point you're missing is that Z's accomplishments shouldn't even be compared to the players you mentioned, because Big Z isn't the calibur of player those other guys you mentioned are. You're comparison would have made more sense had you compared Big Z's accomplishments to Jeff Hornececk, Dan Majerle, John Starks, etc as these are guys who are closer to the calibur of player as Big Z has been. Big Z is a role player with one or two all star game selections, while the guys you mentioned are all-time greats, which is why their jerseys are retired regardless of having won a championship.

Exactly. There is a massive difference in being the best player(and all-time great) on a team that just comes up short and being a role player on an average team/team that comes up just short.

[Senser81]

Congrats on him getting to 10K points but can we all pump our brakes a bit, here? Retire his number? Really? I like Z but is he really an all-time great Cav?

The Cavs have 6 retired jerseys:

7 - Bingo Smith, F, 1970-79
22 - Larry Nance, F, 1988-94
25 - Mark Price, G, 1986-95
34 - Austin Carr, G, 1971-80
42 - Nate Thurmond, C, 1975-77
43 - Brad Daugherty, C, 1986-94

Is he really of that caliber? Well, I guess if Bingo Smith can have his number retired. Nevermind. Sort of.

Nate Thurmond played all of 3 seasons with Cleveland. Advantage Illgauskas.

Bingo Smith was a decent player at best. Advantage Illgauskas.

Larry Nance was a very underrated player, but his best years were with the Suns. He was in the twilight of his career with Cleveland. He was very good with the Cavs, but definitely not an all-star.

Austin Carr had a couple good years early in his career, but he was nothing special. Advantage Illgauskas.

Mark Price was another good Cavs player, but he wasn't necessarily head and shoulders above and Illgauskas.

Daugherty is probably the best 1-to-1 comparison to Illgauskas. Daugherty played 8 years, averaged 19pts 10rebs. A few all star games. Illgauskas played longer, but has lower averages (15pts 8 rebs). He has two all star games. Probably a little worse than Daugherty, but definitely comparable IMO.

[Vinsane]

Oh, now I get it. Cavs win a 'ship and that makes them not an average team, it has nothing to do with the fact that they went to a 07 finals, drained from an ECF show down with Detroit, missed a trip to the ECF on a game 7 in Boston. And are poised to make a deep run in the playoffs this season...if that's average I'd hate to see what your good teams look like.

[FirstTimer]

Oh, now I get it. Cavs win a 'ship and that makes them not an average team, it has nothing to do with the fact that they went to a 07 finals, drained from an ECF show down with Detroit, missed a trip to the ECF on a game 7 in Boston. And are poised to make a deep run in the playoffs this season...if that's average I'd hate to see what your good teams look like.

I said average to below average most of his career. Key word. MOST. Nice job with the reading comprehension slugger.

Keep comparing Big Z to first ballot HOFer's though...

[ralaw]

I said average to below average most of his career. Key word. MOST. Nice job with the reading comprehension slugger.

Keep comparing Big Z to first ballot HOFer's though...

Also, he's making it seem as if Big Z is the reason for the Cavs recent success.

[FirstTimer]

Also, he's making it seem as if Big Z is the reason for the Cavs recent success.

I know. It'd be like a Bulls fan campaigning for Cartwright to get his # retired because he was valuable and loyal to the Bulls and did all the little things. Then compare Cartwright to Bill Russell and ignore he played with perhaps two of the best wing players to ever play in the NBA.

[Esjay]

He's a pretty good player. You don't retire pretty good players' jerseys. Like I said earlier, I love Big Z, and the greatest thing about him is his loyalty. He has been with the Cavs for a long time, and he's not someone who plays for the money. That's what makes Cavs fans love him. But he's not a HOFer, and his jersey should not be retired.

Exactly.

[zack54attack]

LMAO at people saying he's been there through the good and bad times.. So what? What does that prove?

[FirstTimer]

LMAO at people saying he's been there through the good and bad times.. So what? What does that prove?

Poor Z. He's made over $100 million in salary as an NBA player....Had to tough it out in Cleveland to get it.

Fuck that. I'd take $100 million and play for as long as he did and never win a game and be fine.