jon gruden is great

[Liquidrob]

and he says stuff like 'Fresh as a daisy!', he is ok in my book

[Tailback U]

Gruden is alright but he can get annoying too. He thinks every player is the best player he's ever seen.

"Ronnie Brown is the quickest running back in the league!"

"Thomas Jones is the best goalline back I've ever seen!"

He's an idiot as well but better than the rest of the shmucks.

[Buzzman]

I cant stand watching ESPN now cause they have Millen as a fuckign anaylst. I mean he's a fucking dumb POS. He says a game is won in the trenches yet he does nothing to help the Lions get an 0-line and dont even get me started about when hes actually an announcer on Saturday for college football, he says some of the dumbest things.

[Bear Pand]

Merril Hoge, Trey Wingo and Hasselbeck are intolerable on that show they do together. I just found out Hoge is a Mormon which just adds to how bad he is.

[Tailback U]

Merril Hoge, Trey Wingo and Hasselbeck are intolerable on that show they do together. I just found out Hoge is a Mormon which just adds to how bad he is.

yeah, I know what you mean. I always thought you sucked ass but when I found out you were black I thought about putting you on ignore.

[ram29jackson]

are u stoned? 30 years ago teams would run 2 WR sets on 3rd and 10. now they run 5 wide on 3rd and 1......the game has totally evolved from 30 years ago.

but that wasnt really the point to my post. It was more about the refreshing outlook a guy like gruden provides

the game is basically the same. haha , the game has not evolved, they just added some changes. Every coach and player knows the same things Gruden does. and they change people every year, next year it will be someone different. I hardly pay attention to commentary because I know most of its for tv. I really dont care what they say.

[Maynard]

well, if by saying its basically the same, meaning they still run the ball and they still pass the ball, then yes, i agree. But schematically the offenses are much more advanced in their styles, languages and designs. Sure alot of things from 60 years ago are still seen in variation in todays game, but things have evolved into somthing much more complex then what they had in the 60ies, 70ies and 80ies

even defenses have dramitically changed. The 46 has evolved into something more then it was 25 years ago. The zone blitz schemes are even more dynamic then they were in the 90ies when the steelers ran it under capers.

to say the game is basically the same is laughable......Gruden is a coach from todays game. He is refreshing because he knows todays game. The same cant be said for fossils like madden who time is long gone....remember his days 30 years ago? When the Raiders had nothing but a deep passing game....nobody runs that shit these days as a primary scheme of the offense...

i wouldnt put jaworski into a class with madden, but he is growing old and his personality is just as old on the air

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Is there any other sport where people hate announcers with such a passion ?

Im surprised noone has a "I fuckin hate Beasley Reese" thread.

I have to think former team ties has something to do with it. EVERY damn guy on TV is hated in someway by someone on a message board.


I do have to wonder though just wtf is up with the ESPN MNF panel.
Im convinced they have spiked chairs. EVERY one of them is angry. Bermans scowl and demeanor have changed he looks "right about to be pissed" all the time...Keyshawn is overly confrontational..Tom is just fuckin angry... Carter is smug and easily irritated....and Mike Ditka ...he just "acts" mean and tough but it looks like 80s schtick compared to the angry mob hes with.


For the record.

Dungy
Collinsworth
Schlereth
Long
Sanders
Mariucci
Jaws
Dilfer
Hoge
Cowher
Esiason
J.Johnson
Strahan
Young


Are ALL good. You may not like there style but they are all good.

Guys like Bradshaw , ESPN guys I mentioned , all need pharmaceutical help.

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

well, if by saying its basically the same, meaning they still run the ball and they still pass the ball, then yes, i agree. But schematically the offenses are much more advanced in their styles, languages and designs. Sure alot of things from 60 years ago are still seen in variation in todays game, but things have evolved into somthing much more complex then what they had in the 60ies, 70ies and 80ies

even defenses have dramitically changed. The 46 has evolved into something more then it was 25 years ago. The zone blitz schemes are even more dynamic then they were in the 90ies when the steelers ran it under capers.

to say the game is basically the same is laughable......Gruden is a coach from todays game. He is refreshing because he knows todays game. The same cant be said for fossils like madden who time is long gone....remember his days 30 years ago? When the Raiders had nothing but a deep passing game....nobody runs that shit these days as a primary scheme of the offense...

i wouldnt put jaworski into a class with madden, but he is growing old and his personality is just as old on the air

Advanced ?
Complexity doesnt make it any different. Going to the game with 10 or 100 pass plays doesnt change the fact that a corner route is supposed to be run and thrown a specific way.

Newer guys do have a better idea of what trends , styles are likely to produce results , but it doesnt change the fact teams try to gimmick and style there way around the basic principles.
What new pass routes , blocking schemes , run plays , type of tackle , type of throw do you see that these old guys dont know ?

Amazing that Peyton Manning in his mega complex offense is out before every practice throwing and timing the same passing tree I did 10 years ago , and Johnny Unitas did in the 60s.

Madden was more in touch with todays game than than anyone in any announcing or analyst booth. His access to footage , game plans , locker rooms , meetings was unparalleled. NOONE in todays game had the freedom and access Madden had. Steve Sabol/NFL films are the only ones that come to mind. Playing things down for the audience doesnt equate to not knowing the game.


The only thing that changes and puts you out of touch is the older you get the more entrenched you are in your comfort zone. You cant adapt and change your line of thinking like you used to making you a boring or annoying TV guy.
Not caring for a 5 wr set or being steadfast that it doesnt work isnt the same as being baffled by the complexity of the play.

[Warner2BruceTD]

How anyone can knock John Madden is beyond my understanding. He was the most knowledgable & insightful color guy not only in football, but sports period.

No announce team will ever match Madden & Michaels ever again...with the exception of Vin f'n Scully doing Dodger games by himself, and kicking everyone's ass.

[longhornfan]

Madden & Summerall >> Madden & Michaels, IMO.

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Madden & Summerall >> Madden & Michaels, IMO.

Unfortunately Summerall got old in a hurry.

His voice is epic...but Michaels is exciteable.
Ill take Michaels only because "touchdown Emmitt......touchdown Rice" was as excited as Pat got.

But Maddens best work was with Pat feeding him topics and giving him openings.

[longhornfan]

Unfortunately Summerall got old in a hurry.

His voice is epic...but Michaels is exciteable.
Ill take Michaels only because "touchdown Emmitt......touchdown Rice" was as excited as Pat got.

But Maddens best work was with Pat feeding him topics and giving him openings.

Yeah if he wasn't into the bottle so much he might have stuck around a little longer.

And like you said, he just had that perfect voice to be an announcer.

[Senser81]

Unfortunately Summerall got old in a hurry.

His voice is epic...but Michaels is exciteable.
Ill take Michaels only because "touchdown Emmitt......touchdown Rice" was as excited as Pat got.

But Maddens best work was with Pat feeding him topics and giving him openings.

I have a copy of the actual broadcast of Super Bowl X between the Cowboys and Steelers. The booth was Summerall and Tom Brookshier. So, late in the game, Terry Bradshaw avoids a an all-out blitz then heaves the ball to Lynn Swann for the game-winning TD. Summerall's call was "Bradshaw...drops back...to Swann...touchdown Steelers."

Awesome!

[Maynard]

Advanced ?
Complexity doesnt make it any different. Going to the game with 10 or 100 pass plays doesnt change the fact that a corner route is supposed to be run and thrown a specific way.


What new pass routes , blocking schemes , run plays , type of tackle , type of throw do you see that these old guys dont know ?

.

your talking about fundimentals. Of course none of that has changed. A curl is still a curl and post is still a post. thats not the discussion

If you dont think football is far more advanced today then it was 30 years ago then there is no point on you watching football anymore.

lol @ mentioning tackles.