Are Bucs Trying to Trade Up For Suh?

[RyanLeaf16]

Didn't the Glazers refinance their debt? Perhaps they are in a better place now?

The Bucs need some juice to sell tickets, as well as a better D-line. I'd love to see Suh in Tampa.

Having said that, this speculation is pure fantasy. I suspect the Bucs will trade down their #3 pick to stockpile. Then we have the uncertainty of 2011, which doesn't bode well for major moves.

They are attempting to refinance the debt with a bond issue right now. The move will likely be successful as a lot of investors will likely be willing to take a risk for such a high yield.

However, the statements made by Mark Dominik and others regarding the Bucs really tell the story here. They either just don't want to invest the cash required to sign free agents or they don't have the cash available to sign free agents with the signing bonuses that will be required.

The Bucs have already slashed ticket prices in the hopes to attract more season ticket holders to either renew or bring new people into the fold. I don't see it working though. The Glazers went from being fantastic owners to the most polarizing figures in Tampa sports. Their token gestures of lowering ticket prices while not acquiring better talent says a lot and people see through it.

[Esjay]

I don't know... If I was a Buccs fan I don't see how I could be 100% behind drafting Suh. He is a defensive tackle... he still doesn't have anyone on the line of scrimmage that can help him. Also DT's have such a bad history of panning out. The offensive lines in College are so much different than the pro's it's almost impossible to judge talent from the DT position.

Quote me, mark my words, hate me. If the Buccs draft Suh they will regret it.


Also BigBuccs brings up Warren Sapp like Sapp didn't have help every where on the field. That amazing Buccs D is a lot different from the Buccs D they have now.

Where is Brooks, Barber, Lynch, Rice?

I'm not shitting on the Buccs. I just think this is a horrible, HORRIBLE, decision.

Sapp was the best player on those defenses. A dominating defensive tackle completely changes the game, you have it ass backwards.

D line = most important thing on a defense

[SuperKevin]

Defensive Tackle is the most important position on defense. Having a strong DT opens up the edges for your pass rushers and opens up holes for your linebackers. That in turn creates pressure which forces QBs to make poor decisions which bails out your secondary.

[RyanLeaf16]

Also BigBuccs brings up Warren Sapp like Sapp didn't have help every where on the field. That amazing Buccs D is a lot different from the Buccs D they have now.

Where is Brooks, Barber, Lynch, Rice?

I'm not shitting on the Buccs. I just think this is a horrible, HORRIBLE, decision.

Are you serious? Explain to me how Sapp wasn't a game changer? John Randle and Warren Sapp were the best under tackles in the last 20 years. Both players revolutionized the tackle position. You are saying that a defensive tackle who racked up 29.5 sacks in a two year span wasn't pivotal to the building of a Super Bowl caliber defense. First, Ronde Barber didn't even become a full-time starter until 1999 - Sapp's 5th season in the league. Further, Simeon Rice didn't even sign with the Bucs as a free agent until 2001. Sapp had already racked up 59 career sacks when Rice signed on with the Bucs and had already appeared in 5 playoff games and 1 conference championship up to that point. Rice was a complement to Sapp...not the other way around. Sapp is not a dime-a-dozen defensive tackle. He is the best defensive tackle of the last generation. You have yet to get the same production out of a tackle since Randle and Sapp.

[NAHSTE]

Atlanta had "top talent wrs"? You could maybe argue White, but getting 1200 yards when your team is behind all season and passing constantly isn't all that impressive. Plus, his previous two seasons were nothing spectacular at all.

I said it before and I'll say it again, the Rams will take a QB. They need someone who will put butts in the seats and sell some jerseys. Bradford or Clausen can do that, Suh cannot. This same thing happened last year in Detroit with fans coming out in huge numbers chanting Curry's name and even Curry saying he would take less money than Stafford. But in the end, the team took the QB because if you are going to spend that much money, you better invest it in the most expensive position on the field.

Are you even serious right now? Roddy White posted a 1200 yard, 6 TD performance with Joey Harrington and Chris Redman throwing to him. Then he had another 1200 yard performance (7 TDs) Ryan's rookie year. Then he posted a third-straight 1200 (1150, but still) yard performance this year, with 11 TDs, all with Ryan missing 3 games.

Roddy White is a top 10 WR, was a first round pick, and is among the best in the league in terms of hands and body control. To say he's not a top talent would put you squarely in the "no idea what I'm talking about" camp, which is rare for you.

I'm sorry, but saying that a guy with 3-straight 1150 yard seasons (and a former first round pick) is not a top talent is ludicrous. You really gonna knock him for having an underwhelming first couple of seasons?

[Tengo Juego]

I wouldn't trade up for Suh. They'd be giving up too much for a guy who may be a 13 year starter but has limited potential. They are better off hoping Detroit takes Eric Berry and lets Gerald McCoy fall to them

Limited potential? Slap yourself.

[mcstl25]

Yeah, but I dont see how Adam Carriker or Damione Lewis not working out has any bearing on how Suh turns out. The past is the past.

Chris Long looked like a beast the second half of the year, but I think I was the only one watching and I could have very well been a figment of my imagination.

I'm not saying that Suh will be a bust, I just wouldn't be able to stand another 1st round DL bust. Don't forget about Ryan Pickett and Jimmy Kennedy either. The Rams drafted 5 defensive linemen in the first round last decade and Long is the only one with the chance to make a real impact with the Rams. (Maybe Carriker?)

If the Rams are unable to trade the first pick, I really hope they pick Suh. However, I wouldn't mind seeing them add additional picks in a deal.

[JeremyHight]

Are you even serious right now? Roddy White posted a 1200 yard, 6 TD performance with Joey Harrington and Chris Redman throwing to him. Then he had another 1200 yard performance (7 TDs) Ryan's rookie year. Then he posted a third-straight 1200 (1150, but still) yard performance this year, with 11 TDs, all with Ryan missing 3 games.

Roddy White is a top 10 WR, was a first round pick, and is among the best in the league in terms of hands and body control. To say he's not a top talent would put you squarely in the "no idea what I'm talking about" camp, which is rare for you.

I'm sorry, but saying that a guy with 3-straight 1150 yard seasons (and a former first round pick) is not a top talent is ludicrous. You really gonna knock him for having an underwhelming first couple of seasons?

Yes, I am going to knock him for having underwhelming seasons to start his career when the line of discussion was that Atlanta HAD to draft a QB to help their great talent at WR at the time. Has he continued to be solid since then? Definitely. But the point being made was that Atlanta drafted Ryan because White was so good that they needed to draft a QB.

[Warner2BruceTD]

I'm not saying that Suh will be a bust, I just wouldn't be able to stand another 1st round DL bust. Don't forget about Ryan Pickett and Jimmy Kennedy either. The Rams drafted 5 defensive linemen in the first round last decade and Long is the only one with the chance to make a real impact with the Rams. (Maybe Carriker?)

If the Rams are unable to trade the first pick, I really hope they pick Suh. However, I wouldn't mind seeing them add additional picks in a deal.

I agree 100%.

Well, not really 100%, because I don't want a QB under any circumstance. But trading down to stockpile, and "settling" for Berry or McCoy (not Colt) would be fine with me.

[Warner2BruceTD]

I tend to agree with this sentiment - if you can dominate the line and get consistent pressure on the QB you don't need great talent at LB or in the secondary to be a very good defense. If you have talent back there then your defense can dominate. The 70's Steelers 'Steel Curtain' defense was built from the line back.

This is the exact formula that Spagnuolo lucked into with the Giants. He had that killer D-line with Strahan, Tuck, Osi, Kiwanuka, etc getting constant pressure without having to blitz. There is nothing creative or innovative that the guy did in NY. Jerry Reese built a dominant D-line, and Spags weasled his way to a head coaching job.

He can potentially put together something similar with guys like Little, Long, Suh, Carriker, Clifton Ryan, etc.

Take Suh, it's pretty much a no brainer. No need to get cute.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

The Rams need to have a pick that plays well...QB, DT, whatever...they need one that can play early and play well.

If you are convinced that Suh is the stud he is projected to be, you take him without a doubt.

I'm a firm believer of taking a QB not when you have the ability, but when you have the ability to put him in a position to succeed.

There aren't many cases to be made where a QB succeeds despite the team around him not being constructed for success. If you look down the list of top QBs taken in the first round, the successes almost always were put in positions to succeed moreover being the reason for success.

The Rams clearly can't coddle a QB to success right now. Unless they have a good off-season that is.

[SuperKevin]

Limited potential? Slap yourself.

McCoy has a much higher ceiling than Suh does. Suh is just closer to reaching his max potential

[Warner2BruceTD]

The Rams need to have a pick that plays well...QB, DT, whatever...they need one that can play early and play well.

If you are convinced that Suh is the stud he is projected to be, you take him without a doubt.

I'm a firm believer of taking a QB not when you have the ability, but when you have the ability to put him in a position to succeed.

There aren't many cases to be made where a QB succeeds despite the team around him not being constructed for success. If you look down the list of top QBs taken in the first round, the successes almost always were put in positions to succeed moreover being the reason for success.

The Rams clearly can't coddle a QB to success right now. Unless they have a good off-season that is.

GREAT post. This is what i've been trying to get across.

The Rams roster has been completely gutted, and is in absolute shambles. A rookie would be eaten alive on that team, and if you don't believe me, take a look at...

...Marc Bulger the last three years. This was a Pro Bowl caliber QB with great accuracy and poise, who has been beaten up so badly that he dosent even resemble the same player anymore. Did he forget how to play? Of course not. He's just surrounded by more & more shit every passing season, constantly trying to play hurt, and has been sacked more than any other QB in history over a 5 year span.

Why subject a high 1st round pick to that? It's counter productive & stupid.

The Rams should simply be taking the best players available. A oncein a generation stud falls in your lap, you take him. GTFO with guys like Sam Bradford and Jimmy Clausen.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

GREAT post. This is what i've been trying to get across.

The Rams roster has been completely gutted, and is in absolute shambles. A rookie would be eaten alive on that team, and if you don't believe me, take a look at...

...Marc Bulger the last three years. This was a Pro Bowl caliber QB with great accuracy and poise, who has been beaten up so badly that he dosent even resemble the same player anymore. Did he forget how to play? Of course not. He's just surrounded by more & more shit every passing season, constantly trying to play hurt, and has been sacked more than any other QB in history over a 5 year span.

Why subject a high 1st round pick to that? It's counter productive & stupid.

The Rams should simply be taking the best players available. A oncein a generation stud falls in your lap, you take him. GTFO with guys like Sam Bradford and Jimmy Clausen.

I've probably been chastized a million times over on message boards around the world for what I posted. I'm just a firm believer it.

The idea of taking a QB as the building block that you later surround with talent hasn't worked since Aikman, and what followed Aikman was some of the most genius drafting the NFL has ever seen...Aikman would be the outlier, not the prototype for success.

If you look at the high end QBs taken that ended up succeeding, the path to success looks rather simple...better than good offensive line and solid skill position players already in place (running game is key). Throw in an already good defense and you probably have yourself a successful team early in this players career.

QBs are such delivate little flowers in pro sports. If he isn't coddled and raised right, he is going to wilt faster than a plant out of water and in the desert heat.