Fred McGriff and the HOF

**Senser81** · 02-15-2010, 09:23 AM

Comments on a few things:

The comparisons to Rice and Dawson are pretty lame, because McGriff played a different position in a different era.

I think Eddie Murray is also a bad comparison. Different era, Murray was the best AL 1B for the late-70's early 80's (I don't think McGriff was ever the best 1B at any time of his career), and FWIW Murray is one of the only players to have 3000 hits and 500 HRs.

I think Perez and Cepeda are fringe HOFers. I don't think either should have gotten in. Perez wouldn't have gotten in IMO if he hadn't played for the Big Red Machine. Even if you make a case that McGriff is similar to those two players, I don't think that makes McGriff a HOFer as well.

Lanteri brings up a great point...had McGriff hit a few more HRs to get 500, would this even be a discussion? I would hope that it would still be debated, but baseball people (like Lefty34) are enamored with stats and don't usually see the big picture.

And the big picture is that McGriff was never an MVP-caliber player, was rarely an all-star, and was probably in the 2nd tier of 1st basemen when he played. I don't think McGriff really separated himself from the Jeff Bagwells, the Andres Galarragas, even the Mark Graces to put himself in Cooperstown.

**FirstTimer** · 02-15-2010, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by Senser81

Comments on a few things:

The comparisons to Rice and Dawson are pretty lame, because McGriff played a different position in a different era.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Senser81

I think Eddie Murray is also a bad comparison. Different era, Murray was the best AL 1B for the late-70's early 80's (I don't think McGriff was ever the best 1B at any time of his career), and FWIW Murray is one of the only players to have 3000 hits and 500 HRs.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Senser81

And the big picture is that McGriff was never an MVP-caliber player, was rarely an all-star, and was probably in the 2nd tier of 1st basemen when he played. I don't think McGriff really separated himself from the Jeff Bagwells, the Andres Galarragas, even the Mark Graces to put himself in Cooperstown.

I think that's the biggest and best point. McGriff put up some nice stats, mainly homeruns over 19 seasons, but outside of that he doesn't really have any eye popping numbers. He was never really a true MVP candidate(His best finish was 4th place), only made 5 All-Star games, never won a Gold Glove(or even ahd the reputation as an above average fielder), and even when looking at where he ranked in the Top 10 on a eyarly basis in HR's, RBI's etc, over a 19 year career it comes off as not HOF worthy IMO.

Over 19 seasons he finished in the Top 10:

Homers: 7 times

Batting average: 1 time

RBI's: 5 times

Slugging: 7 times

OBP: 4 times

OBPS: 7 times

He only lead the league in homers twice and OBPS once.

Mcgriff is one of those guys who played for a longe time, had a very nice career but in the end isn't a HOF'er.

And Lan, I have to groan you for saying Ron Santo doesn't belong in. He does. But he's been his own worst enemy to his own induction.

**Lanteri** · 02-15-2010, 09:52 AM

Originally posted by FirstTimer

And Lan, I have to groan you for saying Ron Santo doesn't belong in. He does. But he's been his own worst enemy to his own induction.

I'm pretty sure this debate has been made some time before either here or on MM, but a pretty solid argument could be made both ways on Santo.

**FirstTimer** · 02-15-2010, 09:56 AM

Originally posted by Lanteri

He's borderline. If he had a longer career he would be a lock. He's about 7th in my top behind Schmidt, Matthews, Brett, Boggs, Robinson, and Chipper Jones.

The five gold gloves help his cause, and the fact that he was a primetime 3rd baseman for about 10 years does as well. Drove in 100 runs 4 times. The on base percentage is the most impressive of his stats.

It's tough cause he doesn't have a lot of the magic #s that seem to go with the HOF. 500 HRs, 3,000 hits, etc. Never won an MVP.

He's extremely borderline, but I would say yes simply because he's top 10 all time at his position.

From the Santo thread.

Originally posted by Lanteri

No.

Make up your mind.

;)

**FedEx227** · 02-15-2010, 09:58 AM

UH OH!

**Lanteri** · 02-15-2010, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by FirstTimer

From the Santo thread.

Make up your mind.

;)

Hmmm.

Okay then, lol. Someone must have convinced me otherwise I guess.

I mean I did say it was extremely borderline, so...

*backtracks out of the thread*

**SuperKevin** · 02-15-2010, 10:06 AM

2 words doomed him

Designated Hitter

Personally I want the HOF to be more selective. There should be zero doubt if a player is a hall of famer.

**WrightStuff** · 02-15-2010, 10:11 AM

To me its clear this is a no. If we're having this debate and its not due to steroids (McGwire) or the player cheating (Black Sox) or defiling the game (Rose) than 95/100 it should be a clear no.

The Hall of Fame shouldnt be something you can squeak into. It should be something that everyone knows you deserve.

**FirstTimer** · 02-15-2010, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by SuperKevin

2 words doomed him

Designated Hitter

Mcgriff only played 175 games as a DH.

Also, on another side note...

People need to quit comapring Frank Thomas to Fred McGriff. I've seen their names mentioned together in this thread and by some ass hat on ESPN.

Thomas is a no doubt 1st ballot guy. McGriff is a guy who most likely will never get in. Their careers aren't even close to being comparable.

**FedEx227** · 02-15-2010, 10:18 AM

Please don't tell me someone tried to compare Thomas to McGriff.

Say it aint so.

**FirstTimer** · 02-15-2010, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by FedEx227

Please don't tell me someone tried to compare Thomas to McGriff.

Say it aint so.

Warner mentioned them in the same sentence here...didn't really compare them though.

But on ESPN some guy(forget his ame) said it might be tough for Thomas to get in because McGriff hasn't gotten in yet.

Wh wh whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?

**Lanteri** · 02-15-2010, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by FirstTimer

Warner mentioned them in the same sentence here...didn't really compare them though.

But on ESPN some guy(forget his ame) said it might be tough for Thomas to get in because McGriff hasn't gotten in yet.

Wh wh whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?

Sounds like something Skip Bayless would say (does he cover baseball at all?)

I wouldn't know since I haven't watched ESPN for anything other than games in years.

**FedEx227** · 02-15-2010, 10:25 AM

Oh no

**FedEx227** · 02-15-2010, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by Lanteri

Sounds like something Skip Bayless would say (does he cover baseball at all?)

I wouldn't know since I haven't watched ESPN for anything other than games in years.

Isn't it so much better. Luckily with working full-time, I have no need for midday ESPN and it's so glorious. I haven't watched that awful channel in months.

**Lanteri** · 02-15-2010, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by FedEx227

Isn't it so much better. Luckily with working full-time, I have no need for midday ESPN and it's so glorious. I haven't watched that awful channel in months.

It is indeed.

MLB Network is where it's at.