This weekend. All the haters can suck it.

[ram29jackson]

People aren't downgrading Smith because he played with great players but because Barry Sanders accomplished more with less than what Emmitt had. I mean, Andre Ware, Rodney Peete, Erik Cramer, Scott Mitchell with the exception of his one good season. From 1991 to 1995 the Cowboys easily had a better QB, easily had a better offensive line on an offense that was focused around the run.

Look at once Aikman and Irvin started to decline and that offensive line wasn't as good. Emmitt Smith from 96-02 never averaged more than 4.2 ypc. In Barry Sanders entire career with less talent around him never averaged less than 4.3 ypc.

In 10 years Barry Sanders had a total of 15,269 yards at 5.0 ypc.
In 15 years Emmitt Smith had a total of 18,355 yards at 4.2 ypc.

Barry Sanders played 10 season making the Pro Bowl every single season.
In Emmitt Smith's 15 year career he made the Pro Bowl 8 times.


I'd take Barry Sanders over Emmitt Smith any day of the week.



EDIT: Btw, Montana won with less talent around him. In Kansas City in 1993 he got his team to the AFC Championship game and they would've won it too had Montana not gotten hurt and the KC defense didn't decide to use a dime defense vs the Bills base offense. Look at what he did in 1993 with JJ Birden, Willie Davis, a declining Marcus Allen... C'mon. Montana is the greatest quarterback of all time IMO.

another pointless compare-contrast-debate about possible GOAT or better than bla bla-
Smith-Payton-Brown-Sanders-Dickerson-Allen-Harris-Dorsett- are all neck and neck. Better than the thousands of others that have played.
But, you know what? Emmitt beats them all because he has the Rushing title.
There never will be a greatest of all time, but right now he is the top- period.
No ifs ands or buts or lame VSN arguements about it.

[Aso]

another pointless compare-contrast-debate about possible GOAT or better than bla bla-
Smith-Payton-Brown-Sanders-Dickerson-Allen-Harris-Dorsett- are all neck and neck. Better than the thousands of others that have played.
But, you know what? Emmitt beats them all because he has the Rushing title.
There never will be a greatest of all time, but right now he is the top- period.
No ifs ands or buts or lame VSN arguements about it.

Just because Emmitt is more durable than anyone else doesn't mean he's the greatest. Someone else might think the single season rushing yards record is more important and more of an indicator of who's the best and by that it would be Eric Dickerson. It follows the exact same logic.

[ralaw]

.......

Good post Aso, but I don't take issue with rating Sanders over Smith. As a matter of fact I rate him over Smith myself; however, I do take issues with people downgrading a player simply because he played with great players. Had Smith not done anything with what he had around him I could understand the logic, but the guy obviously produced, so I don't get the point of saying he's overrated or downgrading him for being successful.

We can only judge the players by what the accomplished with what they had to work with. Much in the same way people praise Sanders for being great on a mediocre team we should do the same for Smith on a great team. Smith played with a great group of players, produced and won championships. What did he do with what he had to work with? This is all we can judge him by. Smith came in on the heels of a 1-15 team and was a key component in bringing the team to dominance and he should be credited for that, not downgraded for playing in an organization that wanted to and invested into creating a winning environment.

[ram29jackson]

Just because Emmitt is more durable than anyone else doesn't mean he's the greatest. Someone else might think the single season rushing yards record is more important and more of an indicator of who's the best and by that it would be Eric Dickerson. It follows the exact same logic.

case in point ^ another pointless and redundant debate/argument.

Emmitt = rushing title- SB rings- HOF = right now,the best of the best

[stevsta]

case in point ^ another pointless and redundant debate/argument.

Emmitt = rushing title- SB rings- HOF = right now,the best of the best

I feel ashamed that you have rams in your title you make everyone else look bad

[ram29jackson]

I feel ashamed that you have rams in your title you make everyone else look bad

only because you are too ignorant to understand the poignant simple truth of what I just said.

[stevsta]

only because you are too ignorant to understand the poignant simple truth of what I just said.

no one is saying emmit isnt great or a top 10 player at the rb position but he is not >> barry, payton, or brown regardless of any silly record he has just like when people debate about brett favre and his records as QB in fact emmit is basically the favre of rbs durable, and good just not as interesting

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

L-O-L at accomplishing more with less.

Then bringing up YPC and Pro Bowls hahahahahah.

Same amount of rushing titles in that span.
Both players set and matched records for consecutive thousand yard seasons. Emmitt set a record for consecutive 1400 yards most games in a season with a TD , most season with 19 or more TDs. SB mvp , Each had an MVP award.

Barry and Emmit were 1 , 2 in "most rushes over 20 yards" for 6 out of 7 years. ((3 each)).
Emmitt led the league with yards after contact 5 out of 7 years.
Barry was never in the top 3.


Barry had a 2000 yard season. Emmitt broke the single season record for TDs.

At equal points in there careers
15269 yds 99 tds
13963 yds 136 tds **all time NFL td record after 9 seasons.

I dont know any sane player/coach/fan who would take an extra 130 yards per season nearly 5 more TDs per season.

It took Emmitt a little over a season to "catch up" to Barrys yardage total. It would have taken Barry 4 seasons to catch Emmitts TD total.


Less with more doesnt hold water because Emmitt did more with more.

So coaches picked Emmitt because he won? All that means is he had better talent around him.

Good job not reading the article. Emmitt style more conducive to winning. Barrys style more conducive to ooohs and aaahhs.


For those who whine about the goal line short yardage removals.
Bobby Ross who was as smashmouth a HC as you get going to Detroit pretty much spent all training camp touting how he was going to use Barry unlike hes ever been used.

After watching Barry struggle to get barely 2 yards per carry and constantly running to the wrong hole , away from the play , and into the back of his FB he went back to the spread single back formation and Barry ran off 14 consecutive 100 yard games.
To think Barry was going to pop off in Power-I offense is the same as thinking Jerome Bettis would have done better than Faulk in Martz system.


Lastly as for the O-line..L-O-L.
Go ahead and name 3-4 other of the great Olines of all time.
That will result in a nice long blank stare. Fools only think of Dallas Oline.

OJ Simpson,John Riggins ,Terrell Davis and Jim Brown ran behind O-Lines as good or better than Dallas yet you'll never hear it held against them.
4 out of those 5 members of Dall Oline were letting Pueller and Aikman get murdered while Walker and Palmer were running into walls.


As Ralaw points out greatness is greatness. You either do it with what you have or you dont do it at all.

People said that "surrounding talent" bullshit about Warner. He went and embarrassed everyone of them.
This weekend people were using it against Rice ??
Not sure what more guys have to do to get clear of bias.

Walter Payton ran behind lines ranging from very good to atrocious. Never stopped him.
Chris Johnson suddenly find himself without a QB and on a piss poor losing team. Somehow his stats almost double.


Adrian Peterson finally gets a QB, the teams passing suddenly has a wealth of weaponry..... his R.yards and YPC both drop significantly.


Coulda woulda shoulda. Great teams are great because of great players. Some of you think the great teams are pre-selected and whoever happens to be in uniform lucked out.
Dallas 93 season 0-2 start and the NYG game proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that teams success was centered around Emmitt Smith.


1.Jim Brown

2.aEmmitt Smith
2.bWalter Payton
2.cBarry Sanders

Anyone having a top 4 list without one of those guys is delusional.

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

no one is saying emmit isnt great or a top 10 player at the rb position but he is not >> barry, payton, or brown regardless of any silly record he has just like when people debate about brett favre and his records as QB in fact emmit is basically the favre of rbs durable, and good just not as interesting

Proving again what selective memory and hatred will do.

I cant fuckin stand Brett Favre. I hate him with a passion.

But anyone thinking he isnt one of the greatest ever , is a "longevity" player , or anything else is downright retarded.

You wanna talk about more with less ?
Brett Favre pwning Steve Young in H2H matchups with far inferior teams and winning 3 mvp awards is "more with less".

Did he decline ? pfft what player going 15+ years doesnt significantly decline. Every player has there prime.
At a time with Marino/Elway/Aikman/Young Favre managed to win 3 mvps and a SB ring.
Greatness was established , longevity comes next. Longevity doesnt erase greatness it enhances it.
This isnt Art Monk , Vinny Tesaverde and Bledsoe. These are MVP all time great players with all time records and SB rings who played many years past there prime.
You guys act like there were middle of the pack guys who just happened to stick around.

Brett Favre was greatness. Like it or not. You musta missed the 90s.

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Good post Aso, but I don't take issue with rating Sanders over Smith. As a matter of fact I rate him over Smith myself; however, I do take issues with people downgrading a player simply because he played with great players. Had Smith not done anything with what he had around him I could understand the logic, but the guy obviously produced, so I don't get the point of saying he's overrated or downgrading him for being successful.

We can only judge the players by what the accomplished with what they had to work with. Much in the same way people praise Sanders for being great on a mediocre team we should do the same for Smith on a great team. Smith played with a great group of players, produced and won championships. What did he do with what he had to work with? This is all we can judge him by. Smith came in on the heels of a 1-15 team and was a key component in bringing the team to dominance and he should be credited for that, not downgraded for playing in an organization that wanted to and invested into creating a winning environment.

This.

Theres some compelling arguments for Barry being ahead of Payton or Smith. But surrounding talent ,could have , IF he didnt retire just arent the ones that hold any water.

If a player is clearly better why do you need imaginary situations to prove it ?

Bo Jackson GOAT if he plays full time..PROVE ME WRONG!!

[stevsta]

Proving again what selective memory and hatred will do.

I cant fuckin stand Brett Favre. I hate him with a passion.

But anyone thinking he isnt one of the greatest ever , is a "longevity" player , or anything else is downright retarded.

You wanna talk about more with less ?
Brett Favre pwning Steve Young in H2H matchups with far inferior teams and winning 3 mvp awards is "more with less".

Did he decline ? pfft what player going 15+ years doesnt significantly decline. Every player has there prime.
At a time with Marino/Elway/Aikman/Young Favre managed to win 3 mvps and a SB ring.
Greatness was established , longevity comes next. Longevity doesnt erase greatness it enhances it.
This isnt Art Monk , Vinny Tesaverde and Bledsoe. These are MVP all time great players with all time records and SB rings who played many years past there prime.
You guys act like there were middle of the pack guys who just happened to stick around.

Brett Favre was greatness. Like it or not. You musta missed the 90s.

I hate brett favre but I dont dare leave him out of the top 5 I just dont have him at #1 or #2 just like emmit smith

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

I hate brett favre but I dont dare leave him out of the top 5 I just dont have him at #1 or #2 just like emmit smith

Fair enough.
Problem is this.

Theres next to ZERO ground to say that between Barry/Payton/Emmitt there was any sizable gap.

Jim Brown is the only guy in that group that can say he has any distance with the others.

What on earth are you gonna argue ?
Surrounding talent holding you back ? Payton>Barry
Records ? Smith>Payton
Dominance ? 3 way tie
Highlights ? Barry>Payton/Smith
Memorable/Heroic efforts ? Smith/Payton> Sanders
Pure running ? Sanders > Payton/Smith
Overall Football skills >Smith/Payton> Sanders


Its rock paper scissors with those guys. All 3 have airtight cases. One over the other is by the slimmest of hairs. Any of them at 20 yrs old again drafted into this league again would dominate all over again.
Fuck.. field turf + nickel defenses + lax rules = all 3 having a field day.

Take a look back at page 1.
NOONE said Emmit Smith GOAT.


Aso/TB ((no coincidence raider fans)) were the ones arguing with themselves about who the greatest was.

[stevsta]

Fair enough.
Problem is this.

Theres next to ZERO ground to say that between Barry/Payton/Emmitt there was any sizable gap.

Jim Brown is the only guy in that group that can say he has any distance with the others.

What on earth are you gonna argue ?
Surrounding talent holding you back ? Payton>Barry
Records ? Smith>Payton
Dominance ? 3 way tie
Highlights ? Barry>Payton/Smith
Memorable/Heroic efforts ? Smith/Payton> Sanders
Pure running ? Sanders > Payton/Smith
Overall Football skills >Smith/Payton> Sanders


Its rock paper scissors with those guys. All 3 have airtight cases. One over the other is by the slimmest of hairs. Any of them at 20 yrs old again drafted into this league again would dominate all over again.
Fuck.. field turf + nickel defenses + lax rules = all 3 having a field day.

Take a look back at page 1.
NOONE said Emmit Smith GOAT.


Aso/TB ((no coincidence raider fans)) were the ones arguing with themselves about who the greatest was.

ramsjackson was putting emmit as the best of the best I was mainly telling him why not a lot of people hold smith as #1 and with payton watching him run on the old tapes is just as mesmerizing as watching brown run he ran with such style and grace when he touched the ball I instantly thought something amazing was bound to happen (of course the videos were always snippets of his games and his great plays but still )

[bucky]

I've never understood the rational behind the argument of "he played with a great O-line, QB, WR, coach, etc" as a way to downgrade a player. Yes, Smith played with a great offensive line, but he also end up being the leagues all-time leading rusher, so in the end the argument could be made that he worked with what he had and maximized it. What more could he have done? Asked to be traded to a lesser team?

It's almost as if a player who plays with other great players is automatically taken out of consideration as an all-time great, yet we conveniently ignore that rule when looking at a guy like Montana. As much as Smith was a product of the system he also was an integral part of the system. I don't think Smith is the GOAT, but he's obviously in the discussion for the all-time greats and certainly earned every accolade he's ever received.......far from overrated.

When people say Smith and GOAT, that's over-rated. He deserves accolades. Great running back that helped his team win championships. But not GOAT.

Walter Payton, Jim Brown
Barry Sanders

And Smith is somewhere after this. Not sure exactly where I would put him. That is in no way putting Smith down, just being realistic.

[bucky]

1.Jim Brown

2.aEmmitt Smith
2.bWalter Payton
2.cBarry Sanders

Anyone having a top 4 list without one of those guys is delusional.

You're top 4 list is wrong. Walter Payton...Much greater than Emmit Smith.
Emmit Smith is also behind Barry Sanders.