Donovan McNabb and the Hall of Fame

[Aso]

You dont think ppl were saying that about Elway in the early-mid 90s? He had a a bunch of seasons where he had close to a 1:1 TD to INT ratio, and a couple where he throw more ints than TDs. then in the last 4-5 years of his career he exploded again. It can happen.

Before Elway "exploded" he never put up great statistics before people called him great. So I don't think that really works. He even went to the probowl on one of those 1:1 TD:INT ratio seasons.

[Aso]

Actually, I'm gonna defend Rex Grossman here. He's not that bad a QB. Clearly not a franchise player or anything, but he's carved out a decent career ... and the man was a starting QB on a Super Bowl (participant) team. How many other QBs can say the same?
He has nothing to apologize for.

He has plenty to apologize for. He can start at those ugly interceptions that cost them the Superbowl or being a complete bust or ya know anywhere else.

[dave]

He has plenty to apologize for. He can start at those ugly interceptions that cost them the Superbowl or being a complete bust or ya know anywhere else.

As our old MM friend Jacquez Green once wrote: "Google me, Google yourself."

[Saluki]

Before Elway "exploded" he never put up great statistics before people called him great. So I don't think that really works. He even went to the probowl on one of those 1:1 TD:INT ratio seasons.

So your argument for McNabb not being able to bounce back is that he had great numbers before, then had bad numbers, and now he can't put up great numbers again.

But you say elway put up mediocre numbers, then bad numbers, then great numbers..................


So if a mediocre player can end great, why can't a player that started great end great?

[Senser81]

Not looking at stats or team wins or All-Pro selections, I would say that McNabb is not a HOF QB. He just wasn't that good. He had a nice career, and as good as an athlete he was, he probably overachieved because he was never an accurate passer.

[Warner2BruceTD]

You dont think ppl were saying that about Elway in the early-mid 90s? He had a a bunch of seasons where he had close to a 1:1 TD to INT ratio, and a couple where he threw more ints than TDs. then in the last 4-5 years of his career he exploded again. It can happen.

No, I don't think they were.

I also don't recall Elway losing his job to the likes of Kevin Kolb and Rex Grossman.

[Saluki]

No, I don't think they were.

I also don't recall Elway losing his job to the likes of Kevin Kolb and Rex Grossman.

If he was on the Eagles throwing 10TDs and 16 ints and followed it by 13 and 12 and followed that by 15 and 14 and followed that by 18 and 18, you dont think his ass woulda been benched too? Your crazy if you think that

[Aso]

So your argument for McNabb not being able to bounce back is that he had great numbers before, then had bad numbers, and now he can't put up great numbers again.

But you say elway put up mediocre numbers, then bad numbers, then great numbers..................


So if a mediocre player can end great, why can't a player that started great end great?

I was just saying I don't think it's a valid comparison. When you said Elway was bad or mediocre or whatever he was actually considered one of the best in the league.

[Aso]

If he was on the Eagles throwing 10TDs and 16 ints and followed it by 13 and 12 and followed that by 15 and 14 and followed that by 18 and 18, you dont think his ass woulda been benched too? Your crazy if you think that

It's a different era under different circumstances.

[Warner2BruceTD]

If he was on the Eagles throwing 10TDs and 16 ints and followed it by 13 and 12 and followed that by 15 and 14 and followed that by 18 and 18, you dont think his ass woulda been benched too? Your crazy if you think that

Elway went to the SB one of those years you are talking about, and he was by far without a shadow of a doubt the best player on the team.

But to answer your question, no, I don't think John Elway would ever lose his job to Kevin Kolb or Rex Grossman.

[Senser81]

No, I don't think they were.

I also don't recall Elway losing his job to the likes of Kevin Kolb and Rex Grossman.

Agreed.

Its almost the opposite of Elway. People said he was constrained by Dan Reeves' 1970's system (run the ball, throw downfield), and they were expecting Elway to post statistics that were equal to his ability under Shanahan. With McNabb, its like Andy Reid had him playing over his head, and when he goes to other teams we expect him to kinda suck.

[Saluki]

I was just saying I don't think it's a valid comparison. When you said Elway was bad or mediocre or whatever he was actually considered one of the best in the league.

Rough time for the NFL when you can throw about the same number of INTs and TDs, or worse MORE ints than TDs, and be considered one of the best in the league during that span.

And McNabb wasn't considered one of the best QBs in the lg during the last 10 years? I musta missed that one. I feel like its a pretty solid comparison. In the 90s it was Aikmen, Marino, Montana/Young Kelly for a short time, THEN Elway. just like in the 2000s it was Brady, Manning, Warner for a short time, THEN McNabb

[Saluki]

Elway went to the SB one of those years you are talking about, and he was by far without a shadow of a doubt the best player on the team.

But to answer your question, no, I don't think John Elway would ever lose his job to Kevin Kolb or Rex Grossman.

Actually no he didn't, the years i'm talking about are in the 90s, AFTER he lost those superbowls in the late 80s

[Warner2BruceTD]

Rough time for the NFL when you can throw about the same number of INTs and TDs, or worse MORE ints than TDs, and be considered one of the best in the league during that span.

And McNabb wasn't considered one of the best QBs in the lg during the last 10 years? I musta missed that one. I feel like its a pretty solid comparison. In the 90s it was Aikmen, Marino, Montana/Young Kelly for a short time, THEN Elway. just like in the 2000s it was Brady, Manning, Warner for a short time, THEN McNabb

Awful stuff here.

There are plenty of QB's in the HOF who have more career INT's than TD's. Bradshaw, Namath, etc. Plus you are talking as if Elway did this every season. He had more INT's than TD's four times in sixteen seasons, and two of those were in his first three years. And one of the others was a season he was banged up and missed a bunch of games.

And the second part has been addressed already in this thread. McNabb had one season (2004) where he was among the best QB's in the league. otherwise he was never great. John Elway was better for longer than guys like Kelly and Young who you named. And I don't know how you don't have Favre ahead of McNabb.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Actually no he didn't, the years i'm talking about are in the 90s, AFTER he lost those superbowls in the late 80s

The 18/18 year was 1989. SB year.

Look, i'm not even a big Elway guy, but you are barking up the wrong tree comparing McNabb to Elway.