2009 NFL combine talk

[FirstTimer]

I think he just aggravated a previous injury when he tried to air hump Erin Andrews.

:iwould:

When's the first Hasselmock due out?

[Hasselbeck]

When's the first Hasselmock due out?

I like to wait until free agency kicks off so I don't have to change it 4 times a week.

So probably in a couple of weeks.

[Goober]

And Maualuga's stock was already falling due to questions about his pass coverage skills and 'intelligence'.

Dude's stock is falling. He's a late first round pick at best right now.

[Goober]

Clay Matthews was impressive today. He ran a 4.67 40.

[Sportsbuck]

This is why I hate this time of year...

How someone does in shorts in February matters more than what they did for 3-4 years in games.

[Sven Draconian]

This is why I hate this time of year...

How someone does in shorts in February matters more than what they did for 3-4 years in games.

I hate this argument (yet I'm going to get into it anyway...)

Firstly, nobody values the combine over tape (except maybe Matt Millen). Nobody is valuing a 40 time over production.

What the combine does is normalize production. How can you judge a WR in a spread offense vs a WR in a pro-style? They don't run the same patterns, they don't face the same defensive technqiues.

How do you evaluate a guy with Steve Threet throwing him the ball vs Sam Bradford?

If a DT is playing in a "squeeze" front, how can you compare his tape to a player who's job is penetration? What about a DE who's job is to pass rush vs a DE who's job is to create a blitz lane.

What about a RB in a zone offense vs a guy playing in a triple option? A corner who plays zone defense vs a corner who was in a man defense?

Let alone the difference in opponents faced. A sunbelt defense is a lot slower then a SEC defense. A Big 10 tackle is a lot better then a MAC tackle. How do you judge for that off tape.

It's not just about first rounders either. The combine is much more about the lower rounds.

The combine bridges the gap between a lot of these discrepencies. Are there a lot of "workout warriors," sure. There are a lot of "system" players too. What about players who just have bad coaching ("Fast" Willie Parker, Tom Brady...). Is the combine more important then production, no. Is dominating a team full of players who won't make it to the NFL a gurantee of NFL success. No.

[Sportsbuck]

I hate this argument (yet I'm going to get into it anyway...)

Firstly, nobody values the combine over tape (except maybe Matt Millen). Nobody is valuing a 40 time over production.

What the combine does is normalize production. How can you judge a WR in a spread offense vs a WR in a pro-style? They don't run the same patterns, they don't face the same defensive technqiues.

How do you evaluate a guy with Steve Threet throwing him the ball vs Sam Bradford?

If a DT is playing in a "squeeze" front, how can you compare his tape to a player who's job is penetration? What about a DE who's job is to pass rush vs a DE who's job is to create a blitz lane.

What about a RB in a zone offense vs a guy playing in a triple option? A corner who plays zone defense vs a corner who was in a man defense?

Let alone the difference in opponents faced. A sunbelt defense is a lot slower then a SEC defense. A Big 10 tackle is a lot better then a MAC tackle. How do you judge for that off tape.

It's not just about first rounders either. The combine is much more about the lower rounds.

The combine bridges the gap between a lot of these discrepencies. Are there a lot of "workout warriors," sure. There are a lot of "system" players too. What about players who just have bad coaching ("Fast" Willie Parker, Tom Brady...). Is the combine more important then production, no. Is dominating a team full of players who won't make it to the NFL a gurantee of NFL success. No.

Well I really just made a hasty generalization because of seeing Rey called a late first round pick at best..

[Sven Draconian]

Well I really just made a hasty generalization because of seeing Rey called a late first round pick at best..

Lets look at Rey's case then. He's at USC, best DL in the country and he has Brian Cushing standing next to him. You have to double those DT's because nobody can handle them one on one consistantly. Can't run away from Rey because he has good plays all around him.

How can you compare that to say, Donte Curry at Wake Forest. Not enough of a cast, teams can gameplan around him.

None of this is to say Rey can't be a great player, it's just deceiving to go right off film. Bobby Carpenter was ultra productive in college too.

[MVP1991]

Lets look at Rey's case then. He's at USC, best DL in the country and he has Brian Cushing standing next to him. You have to double those DT's because nobody can handle them one on one consistantly. Can't run away from Rey because he has good plays all around him.

How can you compare that to say, Donte Curry at Wake Forest. Not enough of a cast, teams can gameplan around him.

None of this is to say Rey can't be a great player, it's just deceiving to go right off film. Bobby Carpenter was ultra productive in college too.

Aaron Curry not Donte.

[Saluki]

Alot of the combine drills are really to show what you CAN'T do. If you have bad technique the drills will expose that, because of alot of stuff you can get away with in college that you just can't do in the NFL. Players that are amazing in college (Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, The Boz, Andre Ware, Archie Griffin (He won the heisman twice) Kitjana Carter ect ect)
might not have the skill set that translates to the NFL, the combine can help decipher some of that and say, "Oh he can't throw from a 3 step drop, or Oh he can dominate guys worse than him, but he just doesn't have the motor to compete at this level"

As for the 40, if you were a consistant producer, and are doin well in the other drills, coaches will let a 40 slide, but if say Percy Harvin had come out and Run a 4.7 then he would have dropped severly, because u need to have the speed to compete at this level at that position, and anything less that a 4.4 maybe 4.5 will make coaches take a 2nd thought.

[ThunderHorse]

Alot of the combine drills are really to show what you CAN'T do. If you have bad technique the drills will expose that, because of alot of stuff you can get away with in college that you just can't do in the NFL. Players that are amazing in college (Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, The Boz, Andre Ware, Archie Griffin (He won the heisman twice) Kitjana Carter ect ect)
might not have the skill set that translates to the NFL, the combine can help decipher some of that and say, "Oh he can't throw from a 3 step drop, or Oh he can dominate guys worse than him, but he just doesn't have the motor to compete at this level"

As for the 40, if you were a consistant producer, and are doin well in the other drills, coaches will let a 40 slide, but if say Percy Harvin had come out and Run a 4.7 then he would have dropped severly, because u need to have the speed to compete at this level at that position, and anything less that a 4.4 maybe 4.5 will make coaches take a 2nd thought.

Kijana Carter had a career ending injury in a pre-season game.

no one knows what he could have done in the NFL.

[Sven Draconian]

Kijana Carter had a career ending injury in a pre-season game.

no one knows what he could have done in the NFL.

I think he meant Curtis Enis.

Sidenote: Who is Aaron Curry and why is his name in my head?

[FirstTimer]

Kijana Carter had a career ending injury in a pre-season game.

no one knows what he could have done in the NFL.

It wasn't career ending.........

[Herm]

I think he meant Curtis Enis.

Sidenote: Who is Aaron Curry and why is his name in my head?

A 1st round LBer from Wake Forest, hes going to be a stud in the NFL.

[Senser81]

Alot of the combine drills are really to show what you CAN'T do. If you have bad technique the drills will expose that, because of alot of stuff you can get away with in college that you just can't do in the NFL. Players that are amazing in college (Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, The Boz, Andre Ware, Archie Griffin (He won the heisman twice) Kitjana Carter ect ect)
might not have the skill set that translates to the NFL, the combine can help decipher some of that and say, "Oh he can't throw from a 3 step drop, or Oh he can dominate guys worse than him, but he just doesn't have the motor to compete at this level"

LMAO! So, the combine helped decipher that guys like KiJana Carter and Ryan Leaf didn't have the skill set to translate to the NFL, yet they were still taken #1 and #2 overall in the draft?