VSN's Top 10 NFL Quarterbacks.

[The Messenger]

My Thoughts exactly. Just to add Phillip Rivers and Norv Turner are like 9-1 in december together. Rivers is a winner , just my opinion. Hes a POS but a winning POS .

The thing about that, and the reason why Brees didn't have a successful playoff career in San Diego, is cause the Chargers had Marty Schottenheimer and Rivers now have Norv Turner. Marty is notorious for being a horrible playoff coach. He just doesn't know how to coach in big games. That's why when he was fired, even though the Chargers had a bad season, they went farther in the playoffs with Norv Turner.

However, I think Rivers right now is around the 5-6th best QB in the league, and what I was saying in that post is that if Nuk put Rivers up to the standards that he puts Drew Brees up to, then Philip Rivers is not a "winner" and by him having Rivers so high is contradictory.

Nuk doesn't dig through the facts, he takes them at face value. He'll take Rivers having more postseason wins than Brees with the Chargers as "Rivers rose to the occasion and put that team on his back, and Brees couldn't do that." Brees put that same team on his back, he just had horrible production from LT, and his head coach was a coach who couldn't win a playoff game is his life depended on it.

[Archer]

The thing about that, and the reason why Brees didn't have a successful playoff career in San Diego, is cause the Chargers had Marty Schottenheimer and Rivers now have Norv Turner. Marty is notorious for being a horrible playoff coach. He just doesn't know how to coach in big games. That's why when he was fired, even though the Chargers had a bad season, they went farther in the playoffs with Norv Turner.

However, I think Rivers right now is around the 5-6th best QB in the league, and what I was saying in that post is that if Nuk put Rivers up to the standards that he puts Drew Brees up to, then Philip Rivers is not a "winner" and by him having Rivers so high is contradictory.

Nuk doesn't dig through the facts, he takes them at face value. He'll take Rivers having more postseason wins than Brees with the Chargers as "Rivers rose to the occasion and put that team on his back, and Brees couldn't do that." Brees put that same team on his back, he just had horrible production from LT, and his head coach was a coach who couldn't win a playoff game is his life depended on it.

No doubt i didnt bring Brees into this indivual argument. But Rivers is a top 5 qb for me.

[The Messenger]

Yes you are falling for it. Nuk is just trolling to stir shitup. He may not even believe half the shit he is saying. He's done it here and over at MM for a while. it's obvious. He even jokes about it over in "The Locker Room" abouthow you guys aren't catching on yet.

It's not even a "debate". Nuk is barely posting anything and whenever you do post anything over 3 lines he ignores it because he doesn't care and is just doing it to kill time. You're debating with someone who doesn't even give a shit and is just trying to mess with you. It amazes me you have carried it on for as long as you have. He's making you all look like fools.

You're actually taking a guy seriously that is posting the career postseason records of Rex Grossman and putting them up against Drew Brees.

What you don't get is that I know he is just fucking around, but I like to argue over anything about sports. I sent Random Hero a message back when he told me, "don't worry about Nuk he's all over Kurt's jock and hates Brees for no reason." I sent him a message back saying "I know this would be a never-ending thing, but I just like to argue over football". Even if he is just playing Devil's Advocate, which he clearly is, I don't care cause I like to argue about sports.

The people who are the fools are the people who have replied to the stuff he's said and believed it was true.

I'm doing the same thing Nuk is doing, just killing time.

Do you think I go to sleep at night dreaming about my accomplishments over Nuk in a debate of Kurt Warner versus Drew Brees?

This isn't all about Nuk anyways, even if he is mentioned in every post. It's not too far out there to think someone could believe the stuff he is saying, and some people already have in this thread, so it's just a debate over the issue, not a debate with Nuk in general.

[The Messenger]

No doubt i didnt bring Brees into this indivual argument. But Rivers is a top 5 qb for me.

Yea I was just saying lol.

But yeah, I think I got Rivers at number 5 on my list as well.

[FirstTimer]

What you don't get is that I know he is just fucking around, but I like to argue over anything about sports.

Than you are a fucking idiot who is feeding into his shit. You might as well turn your chair towards a wall and start talking to it.It would have the same effect and you'd only look insane to you and your family.

[Nukleopatra]

My Thoughts exactly. Just to add Phillip Rivers and Norv Turner are like 9-1 in december together. Rivers is a winner , just my opinion. Hes a POS but a winning POS .

Philip Rivers is a winner.

I expect the guy to have at least one super bowl title before it's said and done.

Career record: 33 - 15. 3 playoff victories in 3 seasons as starter.

Brees put that same team on his back, he just had horrible production from LT, and his head coach was a coach who couldn't win a playoff game is his life depended on it

Yes, it's LT's fault that Drew Brees is incompetent.

2002: 1683, 14 TDs.
2003: 1645, 13 TDs.
2004: 1335, 17 TDs.


Seriously, Messenger, this is the last time I even bother responding to you. To say LT was horrible, and didn't help Drew Brees, is about the dumbest fucking thing I've ever seen. I'll let you go back to the fantasy land you currently reside in, where only Drew Brees seems to do his job. Enjoy!

[Len B]

I just read through the first ten pages of this thread and it was quite entertaining. Just wanted to point out some things I see wrong with this argument.

Kurt Warner's career - 77.1 QB rating in 51 "Late and Close Games". 13 TD, 14 INT
Drew Bree's career - 82.6 QB rating in 55 "Late and Close Games". 18 TD, 15 INT

Basically identical. I won't say one is better than the other, because really they are both great QB's.

Kurt Warner took a team so "statistically bad" to the playoffs this season because they were lucky to be in the NFC West. They went 9-7 in the worst division in football in quite some time. They got hot at the right time and made a strong push. I give them credit for that playoff push and admit they earned it.

But to use a team's regular season stats as a reason why Warner was great in the playoffs is not a valid argument. They got in because they were the best of the worst. What they did in the post season has zero effect on their regular season team stats.

You can't give Warner credit for taking a statistically bad team to the playoffs in this situation, and then say Brees took a statistically bad team to 8-8.

Saints opponents posted a 142-113 win/loss record this year, 8th hardest at 56%. Cardinals opponents posted a 113-142 record this year, with 44% ranking them 25th hardest.

Put Brees in Arizona, the Cardinals go 9-7 and still win that division. Put Warner on the Saints, Saints still go 8-8 and don't make the playoffs. It's not like one QB killed one team, and the other saved the season.

And by the way, the "don't argue with Nuk" thing is really disturbing. Did MM get soft after I left where people are afraid to put up good arguments? :D

[Nukleopatra]

Put Brees in Arizona, the Cardinals go 9-7 and still win that division. Put Warner on the Saints, Saints still go 8-8 and don't make the playoffs. It's not like one QB killed one team, and the other saved the season.
:D

Nice argument.

Since we're playing that game - I'll assume that Drew Brees would manage to fuck up Arizona's season, the way he fucked up New Orleans by throwing 6 interceptions in two highly important division games.

Oh, I'm just assuming, of course. Like you.

[Nukleopatra]

Actually, let's take Len's case a step further.

Let's put Drew Brees in New England a couple years ago, where New England would have beaten New York, and finished with a perfect season. So, let's add on a few post season victories and a super bowl ring to Drew Brees career, since the incompetent douche bag can't seem to do it himself.

Len, you ever think about becoming a sports agent?

Drew Brees would love you. Hell, I know of a lot of players that would love you.

[FirstTimer]

I
And by the way, the "don't argue with Nuk" thing is really disturbing. Did MM get soft after I left where people are afraid to put up good arguments? :D

No. Ha. We just learned all he is doing is trolling and arguing for the hell of it. So we quit wasting our time ;)

PS Merge the NFL and NCAA footbal forums already

[Gonzo]

Actually, let's take Len's case a step further.

Let's put Drew Brees in New England a couple years ago, where New England would have beaten New York, and finished with a perfect season. So, let's add on a few post season victories and a super bowl ring to Drew Brees career, since the incompetent douche bag can't seem to do it himself.

Len, you ever think about becoming a sports agent?

Drew Brees would love you. Hell, I know of a lot of players that would love you.

[Nukleopatra]

No. Ha. We just learned all he is doing is trolling and arguing for the hell of it. So we quit wasting our time ;)

See, Len and I put Drew Brees in New England two years ago, where he finished the season 19-0, including the super bowl victory, of course. So, we add 19 games to his current total, a super bowl ring, and he also would have thrown for 50 TDs, so my question to you... Is Drew Brees a hall of famer now? He has the ring, the has the record for passing TDs, and we'll also assume that he would have lead New England to the playoffs in '08, where Cassel failed. Possibly even the super bowl? Should we give him another ring, or maybe another appearance?

What do you guys think?

[Len B]

Actually, let's take Len's case a step further.

Let's put Drew Brees in New England a couple years ago, where New England would have beaten New York, and finished with a perfect season. So, let's add on a few post season victories and a super bowl ring to Drew Brees career, since the incompetent douche bag can't seem to do it himself.

Len, you ever think about becoming a sports agent?

Drew Brees would love you. Hell, I know of a lot of players that would love you.

Yes, because that's exactly what I said.

Don't let the word "Brees" make you go into a frenzy where you start spitting out gibberish and changing people's words around.

Brees and Warner statistically were as equal as you can get. 96.9 QB rating to 96.2 QB rating. In their careers, they are statistically equal in close/late games.

They both played on equal talent teams, so to say Warner carried a bad team and say that Brees is a loser for not getting the Saints to the playoffs is a bad argument.

Division placement is the only reason the Cardinals made it to the playoffs this year. They went just 9-7 with one of the worst schedules in the league.

No idea how you spun equal QB's on equal teams into "Drew Brees has an undefeated season and wins the SB".

[Nukleopatra]

Yes, because that's exactly what I said.

Len, can we put me in New Orleans, since Drew is in New England? I'm quite capable of leading New Orleans to at least last place in the division, behind a rookie quarterback who took over one of the worst teams in the NFL.

Oh, please? Can we? can we?

[Len B]

No. Ha. We just learned all he is doing is trolling and arguing for the hell of it. So we quit wasting our time ;)

PS Merge the NFL and NCAA footbal forums already

I see what you mean. He just randomly comes up with things no one said to keep the argument going.