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7x Pro Bowl
5x First Team All Pro
5x First Team All Pro
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He's borderline to me. -
I just posted this in the Urlacher thread:
Since Urlacher is pretty much non debatable, let's talk about Thomas & London Fletcher.
I personally think Fletcher is one of the most underrated players in the history of the game and would put him in the hall of fame with no second thought.
I'd also vote yes to Zach Thomas, but would listen to a reasonable no argument and could be potentially swayed.Comment
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I'd put him in.
Fletcher to me while he's under appreciated, if you put him in the HOF...he'd become pretty overrated.Comment
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If all this Brian Urlacher talk I am hearing today about him being "first ballot HOF" or a "lock" is true. Then so is Zach.
FOR ZACH
All Pro 1st Team: 5 vs. 4
All Pro 2nd Team: 2 vs. 1
Tackles: 1733 vs. 1358
Forced Fumbles: 17 vs. 12
Games Started: 182 vs. 180
Impact Tackles Per Year: 17.7 vs. 16.1
FOR URLACHER
Defensive Player of the Year: 1 vs. 0
Pro Bowl: 8 vs. 7
Interceptions: 22 vs. 17
Sacks: 41.5 vs. 20.5
Passes Defensed: 85 vs. 38
Tackles for Loss Per Year: 8.6 vs. 8.3
PUSH
Championships: 0 vs. 0
All Decade Team: 1 (2000's) vs. 1 (2000's)
Defensive Rookie of the Year: 1 (1996) vs. 1 (2000)
Touchdowns: 4 vs. 4Comment
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I think Thomas should go in, but there are a couple non-HOF LBs that I'd want to see in Canton before Thomas. Randy Gradishar is one, Chuck Howley is another (although he was an OLB).Comment
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I don't think there is much of a doubt that Thomas was the third best middle linebacker of his era...I think the question is, is the third best middle linebacker of his era Hall of Fame worthy.
Then, when you start comparing Thomas to some players in and out of the Hall of Fame, things get a little murky. As senser stated, there are some middle linebackers that I would consider better than Thomas on an All-Time level, that aren't in the Hall of Fame yet or may never be.
I'd throw him in the Tommy Nobis or Sam Mills category, but that's me. I think Gradishar is a better linebacker All-Time and he's not in.Comment
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Agree with Senser.
Question for f16: What the hell is an impact tackle?Comment
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Dunno, got the comparison stats from someone on the forum who is in with the team circles, he's been on the NFL Network a few times but I don't know his name. He moonlights as a draftnic and team coverer. Personally I find him annoying, because I think he either needs to quite his day job and do it full time or stop obsessing over his side job like a middle aged man living in his parents basement, but the guy does always have his shit straight.Last edited by f16harm; 05-22-2013, 05:58 PM.Comment
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I do think he should be in. Linebackers in general, and especially middle linebackers, are under-represented in the Hall.
Zach Thomas, like Urlacher and Lewis, was the captain and building block for a pretty strong run of defenses in Miami. They had 4 or 5 top 5 finishes and were never a bad defense when he was a starter. In fact, in '07 when he only played 5 games, they plummeted to 30th in the NFL in points allowed (never finished worse than 20 when he started).
Through all the coaching turnover that happens in the NFL, and the constant player turnover, guys like Thomas/Lewis/Urlacher have a major role in how players develop and establishing a consistent identity of a unit.Comment
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As an aside, someone who's a Dolphins fan probably can't explain enough to a non-fan how great of a teammate, leader, worker, and best of all, person, Zach was/is. This guy gave up a lot for the organization, never complained, and even gave up money sometimes to restructure, etc.
I think part of the reason he doesn't get the total respect he should is because he did it quietly. He wasn't a big media guy or rah rah guy like Ray Lewis. Even to this day he loves the Dolphins and when he comes around there's nothing but love. He's up there with Marino and Griese in respect. Since he left/retired no one has worn his number. It was given to a rookie 3 years ago in camp but immediately taken away once fans and the upper management found out.
Jason Taylor and Zach's careers ran parallel, they're even brothers-in-law (for those who didn't know). IMO they should both go in to the Hall on the same year, whenever. They are the only Dolphins in the history of the franchise, other than perhaps Bob Kuechenberg, who deserve to be in the HOF.Comment
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