2nd best receiver all time, from 2008

[Senser81]

To be clear there's a drop off after no.3 no matter what.
Countdown to Senser flipping over no4 and telling me about Sterling again. :-)

Definitely an interesting list. Irvin being at #4 is the most noticeable thing...I would be fine with Irvin being nowhere near the top 10. Warfield has 20 more TDs than Irvin on 325 less receptions. Irvin doesn't have the playmaking ability of most of the other top 10 WRs, and he doesn't have the longevity or production of the others.

My other qualm is that Lance Alworth is not on the list. I would probably put him at #4 in place of Irvin. The article's mention of Alworth and Maynard excelling due to the bad defenses of the early days of the AFL is wrong. Both were still putting up huge numbers in the latter days of the AFL, when the AFL defenses were superior to the NFL defenses.

Owens is always hard to rate. In terms of producton, you probably have to put him in the top 10. He was such a freakish athlete, perhaps even more so than Moss because Owens retained his durability while running over people. All Moss had to do was retain his speed to be effective.

Guys like Berry and Charlie Joiner contributed a lot to the development of the passing game in general. Berry made it a scientific study as both a player and coach, and Don Coryell would confer with Joiner about passing routes as he refined his offense for the NFL. Its hard to quantify such things. But I don't know if I would put either in my top 10. The article said that a panelist put Joiner at #2 (assume it was Holmgren), which I just can't agree with.

Overall, I'd probably have a lot of these guys in my top 10. A good list.

[Warner2BruceTD]

For me, I don't care how may catches or yards Owens has, because he never played for a coach that didn't eventually want him out of his locker room, and never played with a QB who eventually didn't like him. He never played for a team that couldn't wait to get rid of him, and that tells me a better story than his numbers. I can pretty easily come up with 10 guys i'd rather split wide who will be just as productive while also being coachable & being a good teammate. Plenty of athletes are unlikable assholes, but Owens is a rare case of a guy who was always a massive distraction to the point that every team he played for thought he wasn't worth the trouble.

Not a top ten WR.

[Senser81]

For me, I don't care how may catches or yards Owens has, because he never played for a coach that didn't eventually want him out of his locker room, and never played with a QB who eventually didn't like him. He never played for a team that couldn't wait to get rid of him, and that tells me a better story than his numbers. I can pretty easily come up with 10 guys i'd rather split wide who will be just as productive while also being coachable & being a good teammate. Plenty of athletes are unlikable assholes, but Owens is a rare case of a guy who was always a massive distraction to the point that every team he played for thought he wasn't worth the trouble.

Not a top ten WR.

I agree. I wouldn't have Owens in my personal top 10, because if I were a GM I wouldn't want him on my team. Guys can be jerks and not be a distraction (I think Randy Moss qualifies), but Owens always crossed the line. But my main issue with Owens is that for as big and tough as he was, he was very unreliable over the middle. I don't know if he just had bad hands or if he heard footsteps, but that is one area in which guys like Irvin and Carter (and even Harrison) are superior to Owens.

[Warner2BruceTD]

I agree. I wouldn't have Owens in my personal top 10, because if I were a GM I wouldn't want him on my team. Guys can be jerks and not be a distraction (I think Randy Moss qualifies), but Owens always crossed the line. But my main issue with Owens is that for as big and tough as he was, he was very unreliable over the middle. I don't know if he just had bad hands or if he heard footsteps, but that is one area in which guys like Irvin and Carter (and even Harrison) are superior to Owens.

Owens "alligator arms" became such an issue that teams eventually just simply stopped using him over the middle. For a big, strong man, he wasn't very tough (mentally or physically).

He's a very weird case. He amassed a ton of production, yet was a very flawed player.

[Warner2BruceTD]

As for Michael Irvin, I know this was written in 2008, but even for his style of WR, i'd take Andre Johnson over Irvin without even thinking twice about it. Far superior player. And i'm not even sure i'd have Johnson in my Top Ten.

Also, obviously Calvin Johnson has to be on this list somewhere.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I agree. I wouldn't have Owens in my personal top 10, because if I were a GM I wouldn't want him on my team. Guys can be jerks and not be a distraction (I think Randy Moss qualifies), but Owens always crossed the line. But my main issue with Owens is that for as big and tough as he was, he was very unreliable over the middle. I don't know if he just had bad hands or if he heard footsteps, but that is one area in which guys like Irvin and Carter (and even Harrison) are superior to Owens.

Are we talking about the same Randy Moss?

Guy was eventually a problem everywhere he went, too.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Oh, and for the Irvin bashers...

[Senser81]

As for Michael Irvin, I know this was written in 2008, but even for his style of WR, i'd take Andre Johnson over Irvin without even thinking twice about it. Far superior player. And i'm not even sure i'd have Johnson in my Top Ten.

Also, obviously Calvin Johnson has to be on this list somewhere.

I wouldn't go so far as to put Andre Johnson over Irvin. Irvin made his rep going up against top CBs and upping his game in the playoffs. I don't know if Andre Johnson fulfills either of those criteria.

[Senser81]

Are we talking about the same Randy Moss?

Guy was eventually a problem everywhere he went, too.

True, but I think Moss had a longer shelf life than TO. I think Moss's problem was that his coaches eventually thought he wasn't trying, whereas TO was just abrasive to everyone.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Oh, and for the Irvin bashers...

It's not even Irvin's fault, it's just the idea of him being 4th on this list is patently absurd and unjustifiable.

If he were listed 8th or something, i'd still disagree with it but I doubt i'd have wanted any time complaining about it.

[Senser81]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t430u1LCClQ

If you are bored, here are the 1966 Chargers highlights that are Lance Alworth-heavy.

Alworth's numbers on the year...13 games, 73-1383-19.0-13

[jms493]

These lists are great because W2B gets so fired up!

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

True, but I think Moss had a longer shelf life than TO. I think Moss's problem was that his coaches eventually thought he wasn't trying, whereas TO was just abrasive to everyone.

I don't disagree with his shelf life...and Moss was a much more talented receiver, in my opinion, which allowed for the longer leash. Moss' problem was that he eventually wasn't trying, not the perception of. There has never been a complimentary route that Randy Moss liked to run, even when he was with Cris Carter and Jake Reed as a young player. Plus, his lack of diversity running the route tree made it increasingly difficult for teams to get him the ball unless they forced him the ball, mostly down field. He wasn't exactly willing to run digs and skinny posts.

All of this was multiplied once a team started to suck, he got frustrated, pissed off, the QB wasn't getting him the ball, etc.

For the reasons listed with Owens...I'd hesitate to put Moss #2. He is without question, the most talented wide receiver ever, IMO...and he is a Top 5 guy, should be #2, but because he was such a pain in the ass, I'd probably hold off on putting him that high. Teams seemed to never win with him, despite how talented he was.

Say what you will about Michael Irvin and his rankings on this list...he did have some fruity qualities about himself in the same vein that Moss and Owens had, but it never manifested itself in the manner it did with the aforementioned two. Guy was a great teammate. Guy went up against the league's best a ton and often succeeded. Also, one helluva playoff performer. Was good for one monster game every year in the playoffs and was often a difference maker in all but a few playoff games during Dallas' big run.

[jms493]

Warner will love these stats.

Moss's 2 superbowls -

2007 - 5/62 1TD
2012 - 2/41

:elisha:

[Pitty]

Methinks Fitzgerald ends up somewhere on this list by the time he's done.